Board logo

標題: 反膠鐵簽名會 [打印本頁]
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-1-15 13:05     標題: 反膠鐵簽名會

膠鐵問題多多，造價膠、一地兩檢、菜園村等問題
但莫視民意，勢在必行，你支持嗎？
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-15 13:58

我支持膠鐵?

If I support it, why would it be 膠?

is this a trap?
作者: heykevin    時間: 2010-1-15 14:22

[youtube]Y8l-Ugyi-1E[/youtube]
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-1-15 14:59

不能實行一地兩檢，乘客香港上車要深圳落車過關，高鐵六百億等同廢物
如大陸公安可以在香港執行通關，一國兩制蕩然無存，香港從此淪陷!
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-1-15 15:02

Put it this way ...  the ONLY SUPPORT vote should be from .........
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2010-1-15 15:08

既然咁多爭議, 點解一定要一意孤行? 唔通呢幾日唔通過, D樓價會大跌, 和黃新地股價急瀉? 做多幾個方案都唔洗要幾百億掛?

個人認為, 以港府每次任何預算預計都出人意表, 6百億? 呢幾年咪6百億, 再多幾年咪又多D.  經濟唔好時, 就....大鑊啦.
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-15 15:26

Put it this way ...  the ONLY SUPPORT vote should be from .........
Catpiano 發表於 2010/1/15 15:02


well I would support it
since I don't have to pay for it and I can use it if I visit HK/China
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 15:38

不能實行一地兩檢，乘客香港上車要深圳落車過關，高鐵六百億等同廢物
如大陸公安可以在香港執行通關，一國兩制蕩然無存，香港從此淪陷!
ricrick 發表於 2010-1-15 15:59

It is kind of like US customs at the Vancouver airport, right?
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-1-15 16:32

既然咁多爭議, 點解一定要一意孤行? 唔通呢幾日唔通過, D樓價會大跌, 和黃新地股價急瀉? 做多幾個方案都唔洗要幾百億掛?

個人認為, 以港府每次任何預算預計都出人意表, 6百億? 呢幾年咪6百億, 再多幾年咪又多D.  經 ...
rainbow-davie 發表於 2010-1-15 16:08

D太監自認為要急保住阿爺面子，要盡快搞點，不理人民死活，如果再資詢，又吾知要拖幾多年，等同無能
政府明知有問題仍然一意孤行，視而不見，領匯、迪士尼可見一班，爛攤子一堆
說是會帶好經濟，但沒有人想到火車是雙向，可以帶大陸人黎消費，但可以帶走幾多港人北上消費？
再著，高鐵香港路線只可快五至十分鐘，真的起來托
作者: chunsh    時間: 2010-1-15 16:32

膠鐵問題多多，造價膠、一地兩檢、菜園村等問題
但莫視民意，勢在必行，你支持嗎？


LOL
it happens everywhere in the world
we all again HST, but do we get a chance and power to oppose it?
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-1-15 16:40

LOL
it happens everywhere in the world
we all again HST, but do we get a chance and power to oppose it?
chunsh 發表於 2010-1-15 16:32

Not the same because public outcry and demonstrations against the HST aren't even remotely close to the same level as the anti-express rail activities in Hong Kong. When the NDP organized a public rally against the tax, only ~200 people showed up at the convention center. Had 4000+ (if not far more) people camped out and demonstrated against the HST at the Legislature office in Victoria, Gordie Liberal is gonna scrap the HST plans so fast you wouldn't even know it.

This is the primary difference between an entirely elected legislative assembly, and one where 1/2 of the members were practically appointed by the government and pro-establishment side.

To hell with functional constituencies!!!

-Lik
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 16:59

LOL
it happens everywhere in the world
we all again HST, but do we get a chance and power to oppose it?
chunsh 發表於 2010-1-15 17:32

Here in Canada, no matter which party you elect, they still hike the tax rates in one form or another. So there is no need to protest.
In Hong Kong, they cannot elect the government, so they blame everything on the government. What they are unaware of is that, even if there are democratic elections, it is not going to change anything, like in other democratic countries.
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-1-15 17:07

LOL
it happens everywhere in the world
we all again HST, but do we get a chance and power to oppose it?
chunsh 發表於 2010-1-15 17:32

加拿大福利國家，重稅是難免，但市民都相信錢是會再反係市民身上
但中國的中央集權，用的是國家資源，受惠的是權貴高幹子弟自己友，平民得到什麼？
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 17:11

加拿大福利國家，重稅是難免，但市民都相信錢是會再反係市民身上
但中國的中央集權，用的是國家資源，受惠的是權貴高幹子弟自己友，平民得到什麼？ ...
ricrick 發表於 2010-1-15 18:07

Like new railways and subways etc, things that people can use every day.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-15 17:56

再講一次:
高鐵唔係日常交通工具，
只係有商務、旅遊會用，
係奢侈品，
大陸如是，
放眼世界如是。
只有一條來回大阪東京既高鐵係唔蝕。
其他高鐵，全部都係勁蝕。
如果一條鐵路唔停站直上廣州，冇問題，好，起啦。
不過人地深圳已經有兩個站，近香港多D既福田站仲要係夾硬加多個出黎，你就知道：
人地其實冇預你香港玩，
因為過關已經係大問題，用US custom做例子唔正確。做唔到一地兩檢，要係邊境落車再過關，呢個根本問題仲係「內部研究」階段就夠膽攞錢？？
所以呢家係特區政府自己獻身要配合「廣深鐵路」。停多兩個站，又要落車過關再上車，根本唔可以叫「express」!!!如果唔係express,就唔值669億!
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-1-15 18:01

一個字，膠
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 18:04

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-1-15 19:07 編輯
再講一次:
高鐵唔係日常交通工具，
只係有商務、旅遊會用，
係奢侈品，
大陸如是，
放眼世界如是。
只有一條來回大阪東京既高鐵係唔蝕。
其他高鐵，全部都係勁蝕。
如果一條鐵路唔停站直上廣州，冇問題，好，起啦。
...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-1-15 18:56

Well, China has 10 times Japan's population. The idea of building any subway or highspeed railway is not for making money. It is a public service for reducing the need of driving cars and for promoting economic growth. If you don't want to lose money, then governments should not be building public schools or libraries.
Some people think it is a waste of money just because it is "highspeed", but still many countries in Europe are building in order to promote economic growth. The reduction of pollution from car trips is already a big return to the society.
Highspeed railway in China is going to reduce the need for domestic flights as train travel is always cheaper than air travel.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2010-1-15 18:14

train travel is always cheaper than air travel
Really???
Try take the Rocky Mountaineer to Calgary,CAD $1,600 ONE WAY,
CAD$4,500 to Halifax.
I traveled once at half price, still $800 + Gratuity and Tax,
while I took West Jet return for $59
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-15 18:24

Well, China has 10 times Japan's population. The idea of building any subway or highspeed railway is not for making money. It is a public service for reducing the need of driving cars and for promoti ...
peter236 發表於 2010-1-15 19:04

你叫深圳阿嬸種十斤菜
然後坐高鐵上去北京賣
大聲話 新鮮摘深圳白菜好靚呀
八蚊斤 做水餃 一流呀 買啦 買啦
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 18:31

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-1-15 19:37 編輯
train travel is always cheaper than air travel
Really???
Try take the Rocky Mountaineer to Calgary,CAD $1,600 ONE WAY,
CAD$4,500 to Halifax.
I traveled once at half price, still $800 + Gratuity and Ta ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-1-15 19:14

Highspeed train from Beijing to Tianjin is cheaper than plane.
Highspeed train from Wuhan to Guangzhou is cheaper than plane.

Your Rocky Mountaineer to Calgary is just a low capacity tour train, which operates during selected days during the summer, LOL.

Someone said you like to BS, now I know why.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2010-1-15 18:39

Are there 100,000 HK people need to travel to GZ  back and forth everyday?(and can afford the fare)
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-1-15 18:58

本帖最後由 Catpiano 於 2010-1-15 19:59 編輯

How come this has became a

MORON vs NON MORON thread??
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-15 19:50

武漢普通人民係唔會選擇搭高鐵去廣州。
係有更平既火車去，
所以根本唔夠客。
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-15 19:55

學校同圖書館係"need"，
高鐵係"want"
你咁樣比係貶低你既智慧呀!
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2010-1-15 21:00

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-1-15 21:18 編輯

20# peter236

2 members in LYK say I'm BSing, but they are despised by the rest of members that I do not know
personally. Point out my mistakes instead of name calling.
Who said Train traveling is always cheaper that air?  definitely not me.
High Speed Train is not an everyday commuter for average citizens like Skytrain,
How often would you use it if you were in Hong Kong? 5 days a week? Can you ask your
employer to pay for the monthly pass?
All the mass transit system in Hong kong make great profit, because of the
high population and heavy usage, but definitely not this one.
If the price difference is less than 20% compare to air flight, and only 2 trips
a day vs 16 flights, I cannot be convinced to use the train.
And the train only take you to the suburb  area, not Downtown GZ, I cannot see
the advantage for users in term of convenience and time saving.
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-1-15 21:22

本帖最後由 ricrick 於 2010-1-15 22:24 編輯

有小小腦都知硬膠
可惜香港d高官保皇工能議員全都硬過硬膠膠
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 22:39

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-1-15 23:54 編輯
20# peter236

2 members in LYK say I'm BSing, but they are despised by the rest of members that I do not know
personally. Point out my mistakes instead of name calling.
Who said Train traveling is a ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-1-15 22:00

Just go to Japan or Europe and see for yourself that highspeed railway is in big demand. In China, highspeed railway is designed to be cheaper and more convenient than air travel, and faster than driving your own car or taking the bus.
There are 300 million people moving into the major Chinese cities over the next few decades. Demand for highpseed railway is increasing rapidly. Now the conventional railway is congested. The new highspeed railway will relieve the conventional railway of traffic so that it can accomodate more passenger and freight traffic, thereby promoting further economic growth.
It may be hard for you grasp idea of the rapid economic growth in China, but over time you will.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2010-1-15 22:50

I'm not against transportation system, but I do not agree the way
they rush in the outrageous cost project. They could have made it
way less expensive (learn from the Chinese experience for instant,
or even award the contract to the Chinese firms if they can get it done
in  only 10% of the Hong Kong project)
The Japanese and European have  freedom and democracy  that the Chinese government  do not want the citizens to know.
And , is the proposed High speed Train affordable for the public?
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 22:56

I'm not against transportation system, but I do not agree the way
they rush in the outrageous cost project. They could have made it
way less expensive (learn from the Chinese experience for instant,
o ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-1-15 23:50

nah, it is not rushed at all, since they knew China was planning highspeed railway for many years. Hong Kong has been talking about highspeed railway since 2000 when it was still cheap. Some of those legislators who opposed back then are now saying it is too expensive now, LOL.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2010-1-15 23:02

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-1-15 23:05 編輯

Just  let the Chinese  Railway Corp to run the project, it would
be much easier to manage.
I think most Hong Kong citizen are willing to pay, after all,
it is part of China now.
Hey, I did not post a single word in all your threads on Chinese
achievements and I have no intention to argue with you.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-15 23:08

Just  let the Chinese  Railway Corp to run the project, it would
be much easier to manage.
I think most Hong Kong citizen are willing to pay, after all,
it is part of China now.
Hey, I did not post a  ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-1-16 00:02

This is not going to happen since the Hong Kong construction workers will complain their jobs being taken away by low cost labor from China.
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-15 23:20

其實筆錢又唔係叫你馬上由自己銀包出
政府錢唔係呢度浪費就係果度浪費
費咁多精神做咩
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-16 00:02

由唔由中央出資，工作都係唔會判俾本地工人。
港鐵係一定會請外勞。
啱啱LSD動議要高鐵優先請本地工人，
又係民賤聯否決~~
到底邊個係幫緊香港人？？
作者: tiffiant    時間: 2010-1-16 01:30

so, trains are plastic?
easily break like china?
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-1-16 02:01

A very good column:

信報 -- 高鐵 --- 香港的悲哀

到了內地山區一星期，回來才知高鐵被八十後鬧得熱烘烘。也得感謝他們那份熱情，才能叫港人包括我自己，再次看清這個大項目。建制派說大基建工程能推動經濟，創造就業。

這是已死的凱因斯學說。胡亂投資，只會帶來浪費和「大白象」。最經典的莫如當年拿破倫三世叫高廬人挖破馬路重鋪，來創造就業。但當年普魯士帝國就修鐵路。這才有實效，過不幾年，更被利用來行軍在普法戰爭大破法國。凱因斯可有讀過這段歷史啊？

那麼鐵路項目就一定好，怎會？又是法國，那條舉世聞名，通英倫海峽走歐洲隧道的歐洲之星高鐵。把英國與歐洲大陸連接起來，倫敦直達到巴黎，一個是國際金融中心，一個是全球嚮往的金錢浪漫花都，歐洲之星一定能是客似雲來吧！坐過的人一定同意好過頭等飛機艙，坐位寬敞，又有風景看，只是沒有俏空姐相伴。

我常幻想巴黎出差後，坐它直接回港就最好了。怪不得她佔了71%的市場份額。但它對英法納稅人來說，絕對是未完的惡夢。

回到1986年動工時，也差不多是筆者出道的前後時空，有幸看過她的銀團貸款文件。對呀！貸款不足兩年，已是問題一籮籮，嚴重超支，工程延誤，「賓架」莫不被嚇到「鼻哥窿都無肉」。開會重組，文件有幾十本，如當年電話簿那麽厚，嚇壞我這初哥。歸根到底，就是好大喜功，沒有認真考慮專案本身的可行性，產能，配置和成本是否過多及過高。

就看一點數字。當年原本估計2004年乘客量是二千一百萬人，實際卻只有七百三十萬人，到2008年都只有九百萬人！一半也不到。2006年修定預算，到2037年才望有一千六百萬人。

票價面對航空公司競爭，預測不能達標，更不斷下降。2009年最便宜的31英磅就有交易，1994年都要99英磅了！最新消息，去年5月政府再注資，58億元歐羅債務也被削去，個file 真是又長又臭！大股東原來是國營的法國鐵路(SNCF)，以罷工爲外國人熟悉，又在再引證政府的商業行爲都是輸多贏小，特別是未經大家深入討論辯證的。

歐洲太遠，香港可也有失敗基建例子。機場快線一直不夠乘客，是走線問題，機場道路網也非常完善，就顯得機鐵票價無競爭力！原估計乘客量每天十一萬， 2008年是二萬九千人，2009年上半年是二萬五千六百人，其他例子還有迪士尼、數碼港及科學園等。

看回高鐵本身的可行性報告吧。每天乘客九萬九千人。港鐵（066）的每天過境客運量2008年是二十五萬五千人，市場份額是56%，2009年上半年是二十五萬三千人，佔55.5%。按鄭汝華局長粗略計算邏輯，要達標九萬九千人，高鐵就要幫港鐵再取22%市場額，可行嗎？內地機票便宜，航班多，我認識不少內地生意夥伴都是飛白雲機場，在廣州跟我們見面。或到深圳國際機場再來港。我們的高鐵走線幫不了。港人也不喜歡西九總站，不贅了。

再看財務數據，以五十年為期，4%利率來折算 （discount） 未來收入，項目的經濟效益（economicvalue），即所謂現價估值，是870億元，但三十年的美國國債都要差不多4.68%！4%怎計出來？五十年68點子的複息誤差可利害！香港政府又真能在市場上舉三十年的債？不要說五十年了。不能的，就只能以短債融長期投資，那就不可能全期五十年都是4% 吧！

或曰所謂economicvalue是虛數，是投行的騙人工具，那就看現金流吧。但在財務安排還沒有確定的情況下，是沒有意思的，重要的利息成本都算不了，怎準確？鄭局長又說政府不會舉債以省卻利息負擔，這是騙人了。沒有現金利息流出，代價還在，即機會成本，政府不就是用了4%來計算嗎？這就是他們估計的機會成本，例如放棄了投在美債的利息收入（暫且不談其他更好的用途吧）。如利率比4%高，高鐵的經濟效益就會降，甚或是負數，即虧本了。

但最要害的是政府有很多資料都沒有公開，正是港府行政主導，不重民意的表現！被80後挖出來，不是說是商業秘密，就是說尚未考慮，如對西九的交通影響，還要投放多少來配合等。但公共建設又何來商業秘密？沒有資料，議員怎能作一個負責任的決定？就如上面的假設，如利率上升，乘客減少，高鐵也不一定虧損，但有多少緩衝？能容忍的誤差到底有有多大？在現有資訊下，有人答得出嗎？

最後再說，港鐵是被委託了去設計，建造和以專營權形式去營運高鐵。但這麼重要的合約還沒有公布細節，如年期，港鐵要付的專營權費用，港府和港鐵如何分擔風險等。現在應還沒談妥或未開展吧？否則作為上市公司，港鐵絕對有責任把條款公開，對小股東和投資界負責。一個金額大但財務責任卻不公開的合約，是資訊不清，絕對對股價，評級和發債成本有負面影響

以金額計，也對港鐵盈利影響重大，有風險與責任承擔，隨時可超過了那5%準則。所謂5%準則，是指交易如超過5%的營業額、盈利、資金或股本金等，就要公布。港鐵上面的相關金額在2008年末分別是176億元、83億元，1593億元及978億元。

在立法會沒有全面直選議員及建制派議員當道下，高鐵撥款是沒有問題的，但看來要等港府和港鐵的專營權合約落實後，我們才可靠上市條例拿多一點資料。高鐵是否歐洲之星的翻版，不知。只知我們立法會把不了關，要靠《上市條例》，這是香港的悲哀！
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-16 02:07

A very good column:

信報 -- 高鐵 --- 香港的悲哀

到了內地山區一星期，回來才知高鐵被八十後鬧得熱烘烘。也得感謝他們那份熱情，才能叫港人包括我自己，再次看清這個大項目。建制派說大基建工程能推動經濟，創造 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-16 03:01

What a piece of crap article? According to the same logic, we need to demolish the Canada line and the Skytrain since they are losing money.
The amount of pollution cut from reduced car trips is already a big return from the highspeed railway. Further economic development are being generated along the highspeed railway lines of the world.
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-16 02:46

再看財務數據，以五十年為期，4%利率來折算 （discount） 未來收入


LOL, 4% discount rate? They think they can rely on cheap labour from China forever?
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 04:33

Busy this coming week so I can make only my points simple and hope they are helpful.

1) High speed railway system has the advantages surpass air transportation both economically and enviromentally. (don't have time to provide the information or data).

2) Higy speed railway system is meant to be affotable to ordinary citizens. (traditonal trains had once been an expensive form of travell as well).

3) Hong Kong's railway system is one of very few (if it is not the only one) systems in the world that is profitable. Someone had mentioned it but he doesn't know the real reason why. However, i don't have time to educate him. Myabe someone can explain it to him.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2010-1-16 08:12

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-1-16 08:13 編輯

I support all the infrastructure in HK except the way they handle it this time.
It does not take a econ professor to understand why the local railway system is profitable
in Hk:
1. The area covered is small, so as for  the construction cost
2. The high usage daily
3. The open-bidding  system for the contractors
Now the High Spending railway would only  take you to a rural area in GZ,  I might as well
go to GZ by other transportation then get on the Chinese railway system for time and
expense saving.
The only reason I oppose is that the High Speed Railway is not for the sake of average HK people, it is just to show the loyalty of HK SAR Gov't, to satisfy the greed of the land owners, and the ego of the central government.
Now enlighten and educate me, the Holy Trinity.
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 09:44

Busy this coming week so I can make only my points simple and hope they are helpful.

1) High speed railway system has the advantages surpass air transportation both economically and enviromentally. ( ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-1-16 05:33
我係城市規劃專案
不過唔得閑搵番張出泥
我建造過好多鐵路
不過 我唔會教精你
我係你老豆阿
不過 我唔會認你做仔
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 10:30

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-1-16 11:42 編輯
in Hk:
1. The area covered is small, so as for  the construction cost
2. The high usage daily
3. The open-bidding  system for the contractors
...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-1-16 09:12


Singapore has all these condictions but it is not profitable. The main reason for HK's system to be profitable is not because of thse condictions. Of course, these conditions have major contribution as well.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 10:34

40# sheep

If you don't know what you want to say, just shut up.

It is stupid and childish just try to say something when you have nothing to say.
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 10:35

42# rockypath


same to you
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 10:38

42# rockypath


same to you
sheep 發表於 2010-1-16 11:35


How old are you? Are you really an Old Cake? You act very childish.
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 10:47

44# rockypath

我都睇唔倒你講野有point
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 10:59

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-1-16 12:03 編輯

I have to correct myself after looking up the info. Singapore's MTR is profitable now.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 11:02

44# rockypath

我都睇唔倒你講野有point
sheep 發表於 2010-1-16 11:47


Don't have time to educate you. Figure it out yourself.
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 11:06

47# rockypath

你慳啲喇
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 11:54

本帖最後由 sheep 於 2010-1-16 12:55 編輯
I have to correct myself after looking up the info. Singapore's MTR is profitable now.
rockypath 發表於 2010-1-16 11:59

spend sometime on your own 喇Ah Ah
作者: 大C姐    時間: 2010-1-16 12:51

其實一地兩檢有幾難?

英國去法國Eurostar都好方便。當然好多人話"你歐聯邦國家嘛﹗"但係excuse me﹐呢個世界有遊客呢樣野﹐唔同passport都係咁過啦﹐你上火車前檢咪得囉﹗
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-16 13:43

昨晚九時半左右, 在立法會門前看到的一幕, 令我徹底地對部分「反高鐵人士」反感, 再跟他們行上禮賓府集會, 決定從此不會再尊重他們.

財會主席劉慧卿一宣布休會, 場外警方即時調配. 原本在立法會門外停車場近香港會一邊出口, 等絕食而暈倒的八十後青年送院的我, 突然看到大批警員由一邊快步行向另一邊, 以為有事發生, 所以跟著上前看, 到發現原來只是因應散場加派人手, 鬆了一口氣, 因此站在停車場的立法會另一個出口, 與行家閒聊起來......

怎料, 眼前站在示威區內的幾名青年, 突然攀過一個個分隔不同示威者的鐵馬, 後面的同行者, 見有人成功, 有樣學樣, 跟著一起又攀又跳的, 警方見狀, 大為緊張, 即時加派人手扶穩鐵馬, 防止他們衝突警方防線.

先前已成功越過鐵馬的, 不滿警方阻止他們跨過最後一道鐵馬, 與警方激烈推撞起來, 期間不時叫囂, 情況相當混亂......

只為火頭只有一個? 太天真了吧, 停車場大閘又突然有一班示威者要衝過來, 又與警方衝突起上來, 接著遮打花園那邊示威者, 又叫又推又撞鐵馬......混亂得立法會(相信)自03年23條集會後, 再次關起各出入口的大閘.

老實說, 他們發癲, 我沒有被嚇到, 依然冷眼旁觀, 因為早就在預算之內, 只是知道自己需要去了解, 他們因何要衝出來? 所以我細心聆聽他們叫的口號、訴求. 那我聽到的是什麼?

「屌你丫」、「衝過去!」、「差佬死開」、「直接對話」、「民建聯最無恥」、「仆街」、「反高鐵」、「停撥款」、「撤回方案」......

然後就是個別支持及反對高鐵人士互相指罵:
支: 「....(己聽得不大清楚)....攪錯呀採場?」
反: 「咩呀, 唔能得呀? 呢道你0架? 」
支: 「就係唔能得, 你推我地就唔能得!」
反: 「唔能鍾意死能開啦!」
支: 「屌你老母......差人有人攪事呀.....」
反: 「....關你能事呀....」
然後係連綿問候的說話......

原來想錄推撞UPSOUND, 錄著一輪粗口混戰, 已沒時間再理他們. 先將現場情況報回公司, 老細說要LIVE, OK! 但希望知道為何他們突然要衝出來.

這倒有點難到我, 由平靜至突然見到幾個人跨跳鐵馬, 實在不知他們目的何在.

前面有前面推鐵馬, 中間又有人與對家互相問候, 唯有問問站在較後位置的人, 他們衝過來的原因

「反高鐵囉!」

這時, 「大會」0益咪說: 「今晚我地見唔到曾蔭權點呀?」
「唔走!」
「等到佢出黎為止」
但兩分鐘後, 又0益咪說: 「我地俾個半鐘頭曾特首, 要佢出黎回應我地訴求, 12點要佢出黎回應我地, 我地宜家係佢門口開PARTY!」
但12點曾蔭權唔出黎會點做呢? 「大會」冇講, 現場亦沒有人答得出.

十點半LIVE完結, 多點時間看他們想玩什麼, 老細說沒什麼的話, 十一點不LIVE了. 很好的決定.

邊和行家吹水, 邊陪那班人發癲, 其實已很討厭他們的行為及做法.

「我地, 宜家, 仲有好多人, 沿花園道行緊上黎, 但係, 佢地到左花園道, 警方就唔俾佢地轉入黎.」
「噓~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~」
「我地要求警方放行!」
「放行!」、「放行!」、「放行!」「、放行!」、「放行!」

再行前一點:
「CCTVB, 是是但但」「是是」「但但」
「陳志雲, 仆街」
「袁志偉, 仆街」
噢, 原來T記行家正拍攝他們

再往前行, 聽到前面的青年邊行邊說, 「我特登趁佢做live仲唔屌爆佢呀, 仲特登撞左佢幾撞添呀!
唔屌佢點會咁快影完呀」

呢一刻, 我真係忍唔住了, 但我可以做什麼? 心地唔好的我, 只好借多人為由, 不斷踩甩佢鞋踭......

十二點到了, 大會呼籲大家散去, 明天再繼. 但陳巧文等人再拿起咪高呼, 要通宵留守, 歡迎大家加入......

OK, 你有你繼續留守的權利, 即使不太滿意收工時間一再押後, 老細亦說不用和他們玩通宵, 但我和同事還是陪這班人癲下去, 繼續在現場吹吹風、吹吹水...

這班人, 打起鼓、唱起歌、跳起舞來! 好聽點可說他們像很歡樂的模樣, 但更貼切的, 應是形容他們索了K般忽左!

陳小姐露出股隙的坐在地上, 其他人有的手拿香煙, 不斷吞雲吐霧, 像十年未食過煙一樣, 不斷將煙圈吐出; 有的雙手向天舞動, 身體左右搖擺, 三五成群的高聲喪笑, 唱的除了不知名的歌以外, 就是"WE WILL WE WILL **** U"的歌...... 真想不出這和反高鐵有何關係?

分散的圍著他們看的記者, 除了要LIVE的CABLE之外, 相信沒有一個有採訪他們的意慾, 還是自顧自的商討「買兇大計」(哈哈)

突然間, 有跳舞中的四眼妹妹轉身向著我們說: 「記者, 一齊跳丫! 一齊跳!」

我真的有點傻了眼, 原本對著他們已口黑面黑的我, 唯有即時別過面來, 否則我真會回應他們一句: 「收皮啦, 八婆!」

但原來更絕的是, 同事說, 他剛剛也被邀請一起跳舞, 但對方說的是: 「靚仔, 一齊跳舞啦, 黎啦!」

吓?!?!?!

反感到極點的我, 真的沒辦法再留守下去了, 正盤算什麼時候離開, 看到陳小姐一眾人突然個個拿好背包、手袋, 咦? 他們不是說要通宵守候曾蔭權嗎? 難道是相約去洗手間? 還是因為搏上鏡不成而意興欄柵?

00:52, 他們又打著鼓, 吹著BB的, 向花園道方向步行離開, 鬧劇終於可望結束, 通宵更的ANCHOR同事想問問清楚, 他們是回家, 還是回立法會, 我就追著一個吹著BB的哥哥, 問他們正往何方, 他說:

「哈哈, 其實我都唔知喎, 你都係問佢地好d0勒!」
「@@, 哦!」
我唯有再問另一個鬍鬚四眼哥哥, 他卻支吾以對:
「請問你地宜家去邊呀?
「er...」
「下?」
「你跟住行咪知囉!」
(妖)「係返屋企定點呀?」
「um...」
「返屋企定返落立法會集會呀你地?」
「...返立法會先, 我地落立法會!」
「唔該!」

一整晚的鬧劇, 真的落幕了!

陳朗昇高呼一句:「yeah! 收工!」是我全晚聽到最開心的說話......

我支持興建高鐵, 但從不反對他人反高鐵, 因為香港是一個自由的社會, 理應容下不同聲音. 大家都表達意見的自由, 方法亦可各式其色, 因此就算立場不同, 我還是讚賞以苦行方式請願的八十後, 就算有人認為要抗爭, 就要用激烈的手法, 才可達到效果, 這點我也不反對.

但我反對、反感的, 是那些根本不知為什麼要衝就先衝的示威者; 那些隨意就煽動他人情緒的領導者; 那些借題發揮的抽水友; 那些搏出位搏上鏡的低能哩; 那些一見警察就覺得自己被迫害的精神病患者; 那些自命公民抗命就妄顧一切的刁民; 那些不分是非黑白就批評記者工作的市民......

昨晚, 短短幾小時, 看到的遇到的, 主要就是這班人, 這是香港的未來嗎? 如果答案是「是」的話, 我真的感到很可悲!

衝, 衝, 衝.......究竟你地為乜要衝先???
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-16 14:08

唔使再反
搞惦
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 15:50

唔使再反
搞惦
快樂牛郎 發表於 2010-1-16 15:08


I belive people all know it was 搞惦 long time ago and just waiting for it actually goes through the procedure and announced.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-1-16 15:56

spend sometime on your own 喇Ah Ah
sheep 發表於 2010-1-16 12:54


If you have gut, why don't you challenge me directly? I am waiting for your shots. Talking to a foolish child or childish senior like you doesn't enlight my day. So make sure the shots you fire are good ones.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-16 16:54

小C妹：
一地兩檢係搞唔掂，因為基本法講明內地關員唔可以越境執法。要改就真係好大獲...
如果只係「廣港」高鐵兩個站，就好辦得多，呢家就係上面人地唔肯係每一個站都設入境關口，問題就複雜好多。廣州落黎既又未必會過境就係深圳落車，北上既又未必一定搭到尾去廣州就係深圳落車，所以，大家都係個個邊境落車拖埋D行李去過關再上黎車。至少20分鐘。上面講到明唔會好似歐洲咁車上檢核，好明顯係人地根本係一早冇預你香港玩，呢家個銀碼係要show俾上面睇，我地係好撚有誠意要服侍你球大陸佬，之不過乜都係「內部研究」階段就攞錢？？真係想起完先解決D問題？？
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 17:01

50# 大C姐

歐盟理論上係一個地區
響裡面 洗咩重要檢
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 17:12

54# rockypath

啋你先至係教精你
不過 我會不停咁招呼你
你放心
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 17:14

I have to correct myself after looking up the info. Singapore's MTR is profitable now.
rockypath 發表於 2010-1-16 11:59
有樣好
你會反省你自己係錯
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-1-16 19:53

烏呼矣哉
又一証明，立法會可以執凹
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 20:06

烏呼矣哉
又一証明，立法會可以執凹
ricrick 發表於 2010-1-16 20:53
使唔使鞠個躬俾佢地？
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-16 20:15

莊香。
作者: Prelude    時間: 2010-1-16 21:24

HK government is very messy now.  If you are head of the government, you will get yelled at for:
1.  Do not do anything.
2.  Do something to satisfy some group of people.
3.  Do something to satisfy the other group of people.
4.  Spend money to help citizen.
5.  Don't spend money to help citizen.

People in HK nowadays like to yell.  Most people don't even know what they are yelling for.  They just want to yell to testify the freedom of speech.  I am not saying all the yell are baseless, but there are many many idiots just want to create trouble.

BC government is very crappy as well.  Maybe we need the type of people in HK to come BC to yell at Campbell.
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-1-16 21:50

烏呼矣哉
又一証明，立法會可以執凹
ricrick 發表於 2010-1-16 19:53

我會咁話，唔係立法會要執笠，而係功能組別一定要執笠。而我相信，經過今次高鐵呢一役之後，全香港嘅所有人都上咗一堂寶貴嘅公民教育課。

但予此同時，我亦發覺特衰政府同班保皇犬比以前變得更醜陋同更肆無忌憚。上次皇后碼頭都唔會咁明目張膽咁去公然反民意，而 23條果陣就更加要就範於民意之下。而且動用到防暴警察同 pepper spray 來對付香港群眾就好似更加係第一次。事情令到我唔可以唔覺得特衰政府向獨裁管治邁進咗一大步，而差人更徹頭徹尾地變成民意嘅打壓工具。

-力
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-1-16 22:04

本帖最後由 sheep 於 2010-1-16 23:05 編輯

對於異見人士
打壓 力要重 手要硬
絕對不能手軟
呢個 係中央嘅命令
爭當奴 你聽誤聽倒？
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-1-16 22:08

So .. it doesn't matter who is right .. and how many citizen ..  

GREAT CHINA ( and PEE   TEE  R ) is always right ...
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 02:43

而且動用到防暴警察同 pepper spray 來對付香港群眾就好似更加係第一次。


你不仁我不義
成幾百人係咁衝擊圍欄
唔出坦克已經便宜左佢地
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 02:44

上次皇后碼頭都唔會咁明目張膽咁去公然反民意


邊個說話代表民意
好多人反既同時亦有好多人支持
如果唔起又係唔係漠視支持果班人既民意
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 02:48

People in HK nowadays like to yell.  Most people don't even know what they are yelling for.  They just want to yell to testify the freedom of speech.  I am not saying all the yell are baseless, but there are many many idiots just want to create trouble.


示威就好似毒品咁
個個friend都去遊行
你唔去咪唔合群
俾人孤立你
作者: hangfat    時間: 2010-1-17 09:21

吃晚飯之際，原來電視直播立法會財務委員會辯論高鐵撥款，泛民大打拉布，問完又問，沒完沒了，自不然搞到夠晒鐘。用咁嘅方法，財委會都唔知開會開到幾時先至可以就撥款投票。馬主 H與一班馬主都係支持派，認為興建高鐵合乎香港長遠整體利益，碰啱馬主 M亦係工程師學會會員，馬主 M全面贊同香港工程師學會之高鐵專責小組之觀點，認為公共專業聯盟提出之錦上路方案內容甚多工程技術考慮不足之處，並不可行。而佢哋對「錦上路方案」造價可以慳好多之說，一致認為不可接受，質疑公盟可能估價不足。此乃工程師學會之整體意見，如果有人話唔信工程師學會嘅專業意見，而相信一班為咗一個目的而臨時召集走埋一齊之人，無話可說。
眾位馬主之中，有商人、有旅行社東主、有律師、有出版界高人、有工程師，眾人（不代表馬主協會）一致支持高鐵，用潮流術語講，使唔使申報利益呀？出版界高人講：「總之公開自己之職業就得啦，譬如講西九文化區，高志森企硬支持，當然係代表佢自己業界利益，唔通你唔畀高志森在西九發展發表意見咩。譬如工程師學會，支持興建高鐵，佢哋認為工程技術可行，你都唔能夠抹殺佢哋意見嘅啫。電影界得到政府支援，成立一億元電影基金，你話啲導演、演員唔去支持爭取咩。」
香港政界有個清潔癖，洗白白要白過白色，在中國最崇拜之美國，夠晒民主喇啩？工會代表為咗醫療改革法案直情入白宮見奧巴馬爭取利益，工會以前又捐過好多好多錢畀奧巴馬競選總統，佢哋究竟有冇利益衝突？現實政治就是如此，奧巴馬競選之時，成日講改革（ change），充滿理想，到入主白宮之後，做事作風與以前白宮主人毫無分別！在高鐵問題上，所有香港人都係持份者，人人可以發言，不能話邊個有利益衝突就因人廢言。

    *

      （左丁山）
作者: hangfat    時間: 2010-1-17 09:40

he's much fairer much cheung mo kei,  both are from appledaily, or used to be, who said the other day that every supporter of the system, or for that matter, everyone who support the govt. is from the left, all communist, sometimes i just hate him commentating like that, so bias,  may be that's why he lost his morning show!!!
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-1-17 12:38

你不仁我不義
成幾百人係咁衝擊圍欄
唔出坦克已經便宜左佢地
快樂牛郎 發表於 2010-1-17 02:43

不瀏都知道你無人性㗎啦～ Thank you 你自己再一次證明呢個事實囉。

邊個說話代表民意
好多人反既同時亦有好多人支持
如果唔起又係唔係漠視支持果班人既民意
快樂牛郎 發表於 2010-1-17 02:44

你係盲定係有病呢？撐高鐵同反高鐵人士都有去立法會出面示威，而撐高鐵果班仲同政府申請咗話有成千人出席，但最後就連果一百友都唔夠。反高鐵果邊呢？照班死差佬嘅數法都有成接近 2000人啦。

或者你話肯出來嘅唔代表晒全香港人士嘅意見。好～咁咪又搞次公投來睇吓囉：無得呃，最公道㗎喇。不過阿爺又話公投違法基本法，因為基本法無寫明話可以公投。我挑！基本法夠無寫明香港人可屙屎啦！咁點解屙屎又唔違憲呢？

-力
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-17 13:19

不瀏都知道你無人性㗎啦～ Thank you 你自己再一次證明呢個事實囉。


你係盲定係有病呢？撐高鐵同反高鐵人士都有去立法會出面示威，而撐高鐵果班仲同政府申請咗話有成千人出席，但最後就連果一百友都唔夠。反高鐵 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-17 13:38

Those who support the highspeed railway, are the "silent majority". They are the people with better culture and behavior, they don't need to protest violently.
作者: Prelude    時間: 2010-1-17 14:23

The people who likes to protest violently don't really know what they are doing.  They just want to have an event/excuse to group up together to ruin something.

These "After 80's" will be part of HK's future, unfortunately.  If you are government of China, would you let HK's future vote system depend on these "after 80's"?  If China want to give up HK, then they will let HK people to vote their own president and controlled by brainless individuals who is easily persuaded by anti-China country.

Btw, I am neutral on  高鐵, because I don't have the numbers and calculation.  But this event showed a way more serious problem.   The brainless teenagers , and the people who just like to protest anything, and they want to take control of HK from China without knowing how dumb they are.
作者: bbqfish    時間: 2010-1-17 15:18

73# Prelude

what makes u think the post-80s are just brainless teenagers? just b/c they are young doesn't mean they don't understand politics. just b/c they are young doesn't mean the gov can ignore their opinion. post-80 may be young, but they are adults too. they may be still in university, but they are not children in primary / secondary school who will be brainwashed by patriotic education. they are the last group of hker who experienced british rule. they are capable of making comparisons. and what's wrong with them voicing their opinion? how is that their coming out is an act of brainlessness and that the c9 and victoria park uncles are not?

if the gov doesn't let the post-80s decide what to do, then who should decide? the post-80 are the ones who will have to live in hk until 2047. they are the ones who will witness "no change in 50 years". they are the ones who will make sure this promise is kept.  they are the ones who will get to vote when universal suffrage become possible in hk. the baby boomers (who are in control of business and gov now) are not going to live till 2047. even if they do, they'll be in their 90's.
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 15:24

These "After 80's" will be part of HK's future, unfortunately.  If you are government of China, would you let HK's future vote system depend on these "after 80's"?  If China want to give up HK, then they will let HK people to vote their own president and controlled by brainless individuals who is easily persuaded by anti-China country.


Actually I am very interested to see how these people would run HK if they become the leaders.  Unfortunately that won't happen any time soon.
作者: Prelude    時間: 2010-1-17 15:36

本帖最後由 Prelude 於 2010-1-17 16:38 編輯
73# Prelude

what makes u think the post-80s are just brainless teenagers? just b/c they are young doesn't mean they don't understand politics. just b/c they are young doesn't mean the gov can ignor ...
bbqfish 發表於 2010-1-17 16:18


You assume I was referring all post-80s.  I was referring to those post-80s who went protest and treat it as a wave party, and don't know what's going on when asked the reason to protest.  If they are to protest in a mature manner way, then they would be treated appropriately.

Many of them (post-80's) were just trying to push the government to do something(violently) to them.  And if the government do that, then they can yell "HK turned into China, no human right" crap.  It's just a trick.  Some of them were violently pushing over the cop's bikes, they should be jailed.   They would get pepper sprayed and beat up if they do the same thing in Canada.    But in HK, they got minimum attacked by Cops, and they start to yell already.  On the other hand, many HK citizens also complaint the police are useless, because the police are so scare to hurt the riot.

As you can see, no matter what the police do, they complain.
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 16:04

Many of them (post-80's) were just trying to push the government to do something(violently) to them.  And if the government do that, then they can yell "HK turned into China, no human right" crap.  It's just a trick.  Some of them were violently pushing over the cop's bikes, they should be jailed.   They would get pepper sprayed and beat up if they do the same thing in Canada.


The HK police is already the most polite I've seen.  Try do that to an American cop and you get punched to the ground.

D憤怒青年話自己只係搶去圍欄 並唔算暴力行為

咁下次搶人銀包 都唔算暴力行為
推人落地又唔算暴力行為
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 16:05

不過多得佢地
我地日日都咁多新聞睇
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 19:14

作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-1-17 20:36

Yee .. I know a Stephen Cheung in HK too wor ...  lol
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-17 21:00

暴政出暴民。
當年係波士頓掉晒D茶葉落海既，都係暴民黎嫁~~
簽獨立宣言既，直頭係叛國添~~
當年共青團係恐佈份子，你又知唔知？
呢家既立法會主席，當年有份整菠蘿暴動，你地又知唔知？？？
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 21:10

暴民冇問題
但係數量太少
難以成事
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-17 21:16

而且看來大部分搗亂人士都係趁熱鬧
怕且坦克未開入香港D人已經散晒
唔好講要擋路
作者: zoids    時間: 2010-1-17 23:22

My friend participated in it and took a lot of pictures.  I think if you are currently in HK, you guys should get involved because currently they don't have enough "number" of ppl to give pressure to the gov't.

It's time to fight for your right, and fight for corruptions (transferring benefits or overpriced projects) in the legislation parliament.

http://hk.ykmc.net/20100101_01/
http://hk.ykmc.net/20100116_01/

I think because the gov't obviously is not listening to the public, it's time to move more people and let more people know Hong Kong is not the same as PRC which the gov't can just do whatever they want, whenever they want, without concerning normal citizens' benefits.

I also notice the media is losing its unbiased pov as well.  My friend created a youtube account to post his filming during the protests.

http://www.youtube.com/user/astrobox

Please support the youth this time, Hong Kong can't keep getting worse to the point there will be no turning back.  I think the pro-democracy activists have already tried their best to fight for freedom of HK people in the past years.  Time for the rest of HK people to speak up and take responsibility to fight for their own freedom and rights.
作者: fishbelly    時間: 2010-1-17 23:26

本帖最後由 fishbelly 於 2010-1-18 00:39 編輯

本來不想發言, 但真的不吐不快, 眼看政府與民意越走越遠, 越來越倒行逆施, 越來越對中央獻媚, 凡對香港有感情有愿景的人都會按耐不住.

與其說 80 後反高鐵, 倒不如說他們反對大陸化.

大家將高鐵的焦距放到經濟效益上, 但更貼切的是大陸對主權延伸的展現, 四縱四橫, 是貫通大中國後的一大計劃, 如意算盤就如把鐵路延伸到西藏一樣, 將本地難於統治的文化同而化之, 達到百川匯海的效果, 繼續極權統治, 威權統治.  幾百年前, 北美的美國人早已精通此道, 把酒精, 槍火等帶到土著人的生活裡, 令他們糜爛, 逐漸吞并, 現今只不過是歷史於東方再度重演, 而 "土著"　變成香港人罷了．

當明白如此 "偉愿"　後，　就不難明白為什麼香港政府要鬼鬼祟祟大力推行，　難聽點講，　就是出賣香港大眾人民的福祉來舔中央的鞋底，　是一種政治獻忠．

政府不斷說出一大堆模糊又抽象的成效，　只是著眼於　＂假如＂　高鐵達標後的效果，　但如果不達標又如何呢？

太多數據顯示高鐵的負效果，　包括會因為客量不足(請參考 EuroStar) 而成為大白象，　逐年遞增的支出會成為負擔　（請參考臺灣高鐵）, 到時誰來負責?  如何負責?

加之高鐵項目撥款大得驚人, 兼有明益財團, 為上層人士服務之嫌, 在香港分化嚴重, 政改計劃大敗筆的風頭火勢下, 粗暴硬銷高鐵, 政府可算抓破了臉皮, 一副痞子嘴臉, 將來又如何會有管治的威信?

更可怖的是, 特區已經把管治的重點放在 "犧牲小我, 完成大國" 的理念上, 市民疾苦, 視若罔聞, 甚麼國家富強等已經凌駕原本應該為市民服務的 "公僕" 理念.

PS/ 雖然對某些 80 後的過激行為感到失望, 但對更多的熱血青年表示敬意.  公民社會下的年輕人本來就應該如此, 美國越戰時如此, 後伊拉克戰爭是如此,反一體化的青年如此 (雖然有些是不敢恭維), 很多事情要年輕人的熱血來推動, 這就是民主社會的好處, 示威者表達訴求, 反示威者可以指責, 同臺吃飯, 各自修行.  要知道 20 多歲的朋友去圍堵理會, 需要很多的勇氣跟期望.  假如 20 多歲的人都安坐家中, 只對著電視指罵, 社會還會前進嗎?
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-1-17 23:43

Actually, few of my friends (not 80After, but mid cakes, 3X yr old) they went to 立法會 as well ..  

Not only 80after went there to against 高鐵 gei ..  

Anyway, both HK government and "part of 80after" are not 爭氣 la...

Well, my brother is 80after too .. I don't think he will go there nor care about it la..
作者: zoids    時間: 2010-1-17 23:52

本來不想發言, 但真的不吐不快, 眼看政府與民意越走越遠, 越來越倒行逆施, 越來越對中央獻媚, 凡對香港有感情有愿景的人都會按耐不住.

與其說 80 後反高鐵, 倒不如說他們反對大陸化.

大家將高鐵的焦距放到經濟效益 ...
fishbelly 發表於 2010-1-18 00:26


Well said.  Time to act now, or too late.
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-1-17 23:57

Sigh .....   one side ..  we can see how bad the Canadian government is going on now ...  

On the other hand .. HK .. is even worse ..

Same la..
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-18 00:17

Well said.  Time to act now, or too late.
zoids 發表於 2010/1/17 23:52


yes
打鐵要趁熱
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-1-18 00:18

Anyway, both HK government and "part of 80after" are not 爭氣 la...


which part of 80after are you talking about?

are you equating those who didn't come out to protest as not 爭氣?

if someone is totally happy (or at least not unhappy) with the current situation
why should he or she come out?
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-1-18 01:25

唉，真的很失望。
高鐵的idea不是不好。去日本我都很喜歡坐新幹線。但現在說的是＄660億，不是＄660，為的是什麼？經濟效益嗎？它快多少？就算快了 20 分鐘，免除了一些上上落落的轉車時間，它值嗎？政府有＄660億都應該解決貧窮問題，到時也一樣有經濟效益，也可減少社會問題。
說到尾，還不是不敢逆阿爺意。一國兩制嗎？哈！
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-18 02:19

84# zoids
How is Hong Kong getting worse? Hong Kong's unemployment rate is way lower than those of the US, Canada and UK.
Hong Kong is thriving while most other countries are not.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-18 02:33

”革命不是請客吃飯，不是做文章，不是繪畫繡花，不能那樣雅致，那樣從容不迫，文質彬彬，那樣溫良恭儉讓。革命是暴動，是一個階級推翻一個階級的暴烈的行動。“
呢家唔係80後反高鐵，現在係由年輕人發動既一場階級鬥爭!
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-18 02:44

”革命不是請客吃飯，不是做文章，不是繪畫繡花，不能那樣雅致，那樣從容不迫，文質彬彬，那樣溫良恭儉讓。革命是暴動，是一個階級推翻一個階級的暴烈的行動。“
呢家唔係80後反高鐵，現在係由年輕人發動既一場階級 ...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-1-18 03:33

That is very funny. How come we don't see millions of people protesting?
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-18 02:58

當你知到中國共產黨一開始都只係幾千人既時候你就funny唔出。
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-18 03:01

當你知到中國共產黨一開始都只係幾千人既時候你就funny唔出。
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-1-18 03:58

You want chaos in Hong Kong?
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-18 03:18

本帖最後由 MoiRhapsody 於 2010-1-18 04:21 編輯

應該問，
點解會亂？
1920年，點解會有中國共產黨組成？？
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-1-18 03:24

應該問，
點解會亂？
1920年，點解會有中國共產黨組成？？
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-1-18 04:18

Hong Kong economy is thriving, when others are in recession. HK's tax rates are way lower than most other countries. Most people don't want to overthrow the government.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-1-18 03:33

冇答到問題，
扣十分。
作者: hangfat    時間: 2010-1-18 07:51

唉，真的很失望。
高鐵的idea不是不好。去日本我都很喜歡坐新幹線。但現在說的是＄660億，不是＄660，為的是什麼？經濟效益嗎？它快多少？就算快了 20 分鐘，免除了一些上上落落的轉車時間，它值嗎？政府有＄660億都 ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-1-18 02:25

社福界「聯署聲明」指「政府與其用作興建一條只會惠及少數富豪階層的天價鐵路」，何解高鐵只會惠及富豪階層，惠及跨境富豪呢？好唔明。他日搭高鐵去廣州之人士，唔通只限富豪級人物？五千蚊一張車票呀？現時好多廠家、有錢人去廣州多數係坐司機駕駛嘅平治或豪華七人車，他日高鐵建成，未必會改變此習慣。睇番日本例子，高速鐵路從東京去大阪，乘客之中，不少係平民百姓。如果只係靠富豪級人士搭高鐵，呢條鐵路執笠咯。
另一個論點係與其花 669億元興建高鐵，何不用諸於房屋、醫療、就業及社會福利。以此說反對任何公共建設都可以，譬如起新機場做乜吖，不如咁……起西九做乜吖，不如咁咁咁。起郵輪碼頭做乜吖，不如咁咁咁。在公共建設及公共財政上，應該辯論乃建設是否有社會回報（ social return），政府是否可以負擔，如果改為辯論「基建 vs民生」，就係另一個議題，牽涉到意識型態，可以講多一年。



歡迎光臨 溫哥華老友記討論區 (http://www.loyaukee.com/forum/) Powered by Discuz! 7.2