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標題: which DSLR is good for " new hand" [打印本頁]

作者: sky 時間: 2010-1-29 20:28 標題: which DSLR is good for " new hand"

as title

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2010-1-29 22:27

I know a few of my friends got the Canon Rebel XS and/or XSi during Dell's Day of Deals for $479 with an extra lens.

The Rebel XSi is something easy and practical for those who are new/intermediate

Philip

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-1-29 22:37

if you are new hand you should just get the prosumer.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-29 23:46

Scour Craigslist and look for an old 20D, an old XT, or and old XTi. When you've developed some sense of what you're doing behind one of those cameras, then it's time to re-consider what you should buy (and chances are, it wouldn't be another camera body).

-Lik

作者: maanmo 時間: 2010-1-29 23:53

as title
sky 發表於 2010-1-29 21:28

the information i would like to have to answere your question is

a number of popular models,  the number of new hands buying each model  and the average number of photos taken by new hands
in the first year

by the number of  photos taken, i mean, the number of photos posted on the web.

for example

canon  fqr112... number of new hands.. 2 million, average photos posted per year  1

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-30 01:24

I wonder, in what progress did the "old hand" go thru in order to level up from "new hand" to "old hand"? Why new hand can't use a decent DSLR to start with?

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-30 02:18

I wonder, in what progress did the "old hand" go thru in order to level up from "new hand" to "old hand"? Why new hand can't use a decent DSLR to start with?
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-30 01:24

Of course a newbie can always start with a top of the line camera. But the very definition of a newbie means that he is completely new to the task, and has very little knowledge in the skill he is trying to refine. As such, a high end camera will be completely wasted on the newbie since he can't even get the basics right. But hey, if you can afford the dough, nobody is gonna stop you from contributing to the country's GDP.

It's exactly the same in everything else -- will a newbie driver know how to properly drive a high powered sports car? Will a first time computer user know how to take advantage of the latest CPU and high end video card? Will a tone-deaf person be able to appreciate the richness in a high end hi-fi system? Will a newbie golfer know how to use a full set of Callaway?

Most of us live with limited means. If this doesn't apply to you, buy top of the line stuff every single time.

-Lik

作者: myversa 時間: 2010-1-30 09:05

I am not a photography expert but I am surely a "new hand".

I started with a semi-dslr which is panasonic fz18. I can do manual or automatic at the same time.

I then switched to sony a330 which is not a great camera comparing to canon and nikon but I found it is really good for entry level. On the info screen, they have a small pictures which tells you the function of aperture and shutter speed. For me a new hand, that is very helpful. I always forgot about what's aperture and shutter but the small icon reminds me. They have a550 now which is something I hate because they come out a new model rather quickly.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-30 12:13

Of course a newbie can always start with a top of the line camera. But the very definition of a newbie means that he is completely new to the task, and has very little knowledge in the skill he is tr ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-30 02:18

A newbie to "stupid camera", a newbie to "prosumer camera", and a newbie to DSLR, one needs to learn differently anyways.
For example, one is a newbie in cooking and wants to cook good French dishes, you tell him/her better to start with instant noodles first. OK, once he/she becomes an "expert" in instant noodles, can he/she cook decent French dishes immediately?
I think, to learn taking photos by a "stupid camera" or "prosumer" or DSLR is totally different (but base on the same photographic theories), one can start with any "beginner level" or higher level camera of that particular category.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-1-30 12:55

For example, one is a newbie in cooking and wants to cook good French dishes, you tell him/her better to start with instant noodles first. OK, once he/she becomes an "expert" in instant noodles, can he/she cook decent French dishes immediately?
I think, to learn taking photos by a "stupid camera" or "prosumer" or DSLR is totally different (but base on the same photographic theories), one can start with any "beginner level" or higher level camera of that particular category.

But I think the problem is the newbie right now doesn't know whether he/she likes instant noodle or French cuisines more. If you try to learn French food and find out that you don't like it, it may lead you to think that all food is bad.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-1-30 13:21

1# sky

My hubby get Nikon D60 for his first DSLR. Not too high price and pretty good to try out techniques.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-30 14:39

But I think the problem is the newbie right now doesn't know whether he/she likes instant noodle or French cuisines more. If you try to learn French food and find out that you don't like it, it may ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2010-1-30 12:55

Why French cuisine/DSLR is the top of the world? What is the problem if one doesn't like French cuisine/DSLR? Why McDonald/"stupid camera"/film camera can survive until now then? Everyone has own liking to try out new things, there is no right for so called senior people sitting in a more superior position to deprive and discourage others interest.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-1-30 14:47

本帖最後由快樂牛郎於 2010-1-30 14:49 編輯

Why French cuisine/DSLR is the top of the world? What is the problem if one doesn't like French cuisine/DSLR? Why McDonald/"stupid camera"/film camera can survive until now then? Everyone has own li ...
Ultraman 發表於 2010/1/30 14:39

There's a reason why something is considered better than others. But this preference does not apply to everyone and as a newbie you might just want the least common multiple.

And this, of course, is just a generalization but if you really don't know nothing better, a generalization might eventually be the best for you since that's the whole point of having such a generalization in the first place.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-1-30 15:53

450D or 500D .. overall the best .. (one with HD movie) 500D with 18-55IS + 55-250IS + 430EX2 + 50mm for just $1500 total .. very good package, good enough for most kind of usage. ^_^ ( ~ $150 less for 450D)

For value/lower price, SONY/PANTEX/OLY are not bad, similar camera, they are 2/3 price of a similar canon/nikon ... but a bit less lens selection. (I dont hv experience with Pentax, but they are highly rated too, and offering nice colour)

I use Canon as my main system, due to Prime, however, if you are new, you probably won't spend too much on different prime lens.

作者: daimo 時間: 2010-1-30 15:55

Leica S2.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-30 16:55

There's a reason why something is considered better than others. But this preference does not apply to everyone and as a newbie you might just want the least common multiple.

And this, of course, ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2010-1-30 14:47

My point is, when someone asks which DSLR is good for a newbie, there is always an answer like: "Since you know nothing about photography, you better start with a traditional pin hole camera, or to read more photography books first!".
When the question is: "How to teach a newbie to use a DSLR?", why the answer is: "To get a prosumer camera (or a non-DSLR) to start la!"? As similar to, "How to teach a newbie to cook French food?", and someone answer: "You better start with instant noodles or American food cuz they're easier to cook as a start!".
I think it's just not appropriate and not making sense.

作者: chobit 時間: 2010-1-30 17:36

Depends on how much money you can save.., craigslist is a good souce.. yet.. it can be risky, since I know people out there selling heavily used old DSLR, and there is very little way you can tell if it's about to die or not..

EL

Scour Craigslist and look for an old 20D, an old XT, or and old XTi. When you've developed some sense of what you're doing behind one of those cameras, then it's time to re-consider what you should bu ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-29 23:46

作者: chobit 時間: 2010-1-30 17:44

I kind of agree with you on this.

I wouldn't be who I am if it wasn't because I had the chance to get my hand on my 1st SLR years ago. I quickly became so into it a month or 2, and I started reading all about photography.

I think it's good to start with the not necessary new, but the right tool to learn....! You can only loss so much if you end up over buying.., yet you cna loss much more if you loss the opportunity to learn while you have the time...

Regards,
Eddy Lau

My point is, when someone asks which DSLR is good for a newbie, there is always an answer like: "Since you know nothing about photography, you better start with a traditional pin hole camera, or to r ...
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-30 16:55

作者: maanmo 時間: 2010-1-30 21:27

i think all DSLR today are good for lauching a new hand  into a high level of photograpy

but many new hand will fail to take off,  that is not the fault of any camera

no camera  will slow down any newhand

the choice of a camera is really not that critical

a new hand who is blasting himself up into  photography will want a new camera in one or 2 years

a newhand choosingg a camera is not choosing a wife
c
its like tiger wood or president clinton choosing girls

prsident clinton did not ask what kind of girls are good for me

choosing a camera is like mr clitnton choosing a girl

the master will grab one before you know it,, thank you very much

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-1-30 22:04

if you are "new hand" who is using point and shot not know what is A/F/ISO/ is it, the learning curve and price tag of jumping up to DSLR are too steep.
When you are not really sure you like photography, prosumer is always a safer choose.
You can actually make use of it while not hating it size so much like a DSLR when you find out your passion of photography is just temporary.

作者: maanmo 時間: 2010-1-30 22:30

本帖最後由 maanmo 於 2010-1-30 23:34 編輯

to answer the question in this thread

no DSLR will slow down  or speed up a motivated new hand on his way to  a pro hand
think of grabbing that camera the way clinton grabs a girl
if you like it , grab it

to play with photography,  dont hesitate to grab that DSLR, the newer the better
the more expensive the better, grab a new one every year

however to learn photography,  all you need is a compact camera
with  a/f/iso  manual  focus  wide angle,  10x zoom  , a new one starts at $250 or may be $200
you can use this as a learning camera

DSLR are not learning cameras,  they are working cameras for the pro
and playing cameras for the enthusiasts
that is why DSLR are chosen by the pro's and enthusiasts, quietly , they think, they look  and then grab you
the master makes his choice .. no questions asked

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-30 22:33

First, a "new hand" to DSLR is different to a "new hand" to photography.
Second, there are prosumer cameras for new hand to advanced hand; as well as DSLR for new hand to professionals. I really don't see why a new hand shouldn't get a beginner level DSLR to start. Since prosumer and DSLR is so much different, in terms of technique and enjoyment and more.

作者: maanmo 時間: 2010-1-30 22:38

a new hand is entitled to play with any DSLR , all are good
if you like it grab it

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-1-30 22:56

you still don't get it.
and now you try to define the meaning of "new hand"
this is going to be vain.
at the end of the day, size does matter, G11 is probably the maximum size someone could bear to carry it with them.

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-1-30 23:04

其實...有錢咪玩乜都得囉~~~夠見過人乜都唔識買1D當傻瓜機....錢之嘛~~~~
如果真係唔清楚/新手，prosumer絕對係 Bang for your buck.
如果係想入SLR門檻，就已經知道自己想要D乜同有邊幾部目標。

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-30 23:13

I really don't see why a new hand shouldn't get a beginner level DSLR to start.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-30 22:33

Dude,

You know, I just find it funny that you keep arguing for argument's sake.

Of course there is nothing wrong with a newbie getting a brand spanking new entry level dSLR to play with. There is nothing wrong with a new (motorcycle) rider wanting to pick up a litre sportsbike or a big hog after they received their brand spanking new licence. For that matter, there is nothing wrong with a newbie driver going to the Mercedes dealers to pick up an AMG C63 as their first car either.

The only "problem" with this approach, going the brand spanking new route, is, buying new and jumping into the deep end first costs money, and for most people, moula is a limited commodity. Of course, there are lots of people in this world with more $$ than they have brains...

So ya, go buy new and don't look back~!

-Lik

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-30 23:17

Talk about whatever meaning "newbie" or "new hand" is, even one has absolutely no knowledge in photography, must he/she go to read some books or study a course first before buying a camera to start? I don't see why one can't do both at the same time.

And it's not because of money. Maybe you are one of those people who think they can play women if they are rich! Money is just one thing. I don't see if one is rich and so he/she can buy any expensive gear/toy...etc whatever he/she like without a sincere heart can really learn a thing.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-1-31 00:24

Talk about whatever meaning "newbie" or "new hand" is, even one has absolutely no knowledge in photography, must he/she go to read some books or study a course first before buying a camera to start? I ...
Ultraman 發表於 2010/1/30 23:17

Since a newbie doesn't know any better, it's out of good intentions to recommend the most economical choice for him/her. Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to find the model(s) you like. I had bought more than 10 models in the last year before settling on what I want to use on a daily basis.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 00:38

Dude,

You know, I just find it funny that you keep arguing for argument's sake.

Of course there is nothing wrong with a newbie getting a brand spanking new entry level dSLR to play with. There is n ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-30 23:13

Don't be extreme.
You guys can suggest a newbie to buy an used DSLR, a beginner level one, why it must be a brand new top model of the line in the first place in mind?!

Maybe people are just jealous. And/or maybe people have been going thru so much hard learning time from the beginning of their photography lives. The fact is, unlike olden days when people learning Kung Fu, which they might have to break thousands of walnuts to start as basic skills. Time changed, and keeps changing. Why there is a more efficient way to learn photography but people seem too jealous about it?!

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 00:44

Since a newbie doesn't know any better, it's out of good intentions to recommend the most economical choice for him/her. Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to find the model(s) you like. ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2010-1-31 00:24

Yes, you're right. But it does apply to newbies to professionals. Were you a newbie, advanced amateur, semi professional, or professional, at the time you kept changing 10 cameras last year?

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 00:54

New driver:
"I want to buy a car..."
"You should buy a bike first!"

First time home buyer:
"I want to buy a house..."
"You should rent a room first!"

New cook:
"I want to cook French cuisine...."
"Better cook instant noodles first!"

New in photography:
"I want to learn DSLR..."
(to be more extreme) "You should go study, earn a degree or at least diploma in photography first, and then start with a prosumer camera, and you can buy your first DSLR 10 years later."
(in fact) "You should get a prosumer to start!"

.............. I just don't understand these logic. But anyways, I'll stop right here.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-31 01:05

Dude,

You think I am being extreme? Take a look at the hard numbers yourself:

brand new Canon Rebel XSi w/ 18-55 IS kit lens: $700+tax
used Canon 30D body only: $425 no tax -- can probably bargain him down to $400

The XSi is newer, but the 30D will easily trump the XSi in features, capability, and usability. It all boils down to the buyer paying less for a similar or better product. It's exactly the same reason why people saying buying a lightly used 2nd hand car is a much smarter buy than paying for a brand spanking new vehicle. It's also the same reason why every veteran (motorcycle) rider will recommend a newbie rider to start off on a second hand beat up newbie bike before they move on to something bigger and better.

-Lik

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 01:23

Dude,

You think I am being extreme? Take a look at the hard numbers yourself:

brand new Canon Rebel XSi w/ 18-55 IS kit lens: $700+tax
used Canon 30D body only: $425 no tax -- can probably bargain h ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 01:05

Sorry I have to reply you again.

I didn't see you guys suggested an used or a second hand DSLR, but a brand new prosumer. And that's why I don't understand and keep wondering. Why you guys suggest an used or a second hand DSLR but a prosumer in the first place? Some people tend to look down "newbies", especially when they see the term "newbie", they never ask why those newbies have such a question and needs, but always "encourage" them to start with a different thing.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 01:28

It's exactly the same reason why people saying buying a lightly used 2nd hand car is a much smarter buy than paying for a brand spanking new vehicle. It's also the same reason why every veteran (motorcycle) rider will recommend a newbie rider to start off on a second hand beat up newbie bike before they move on to something bigger and better.
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 01:05

This is what I don't agree, somehow.
Unless you know well enough about cars, I won't suggest a "newbie" to buy used cars cuz in case the car break down in the middle of the road or something happens, they will have no idea what's going on and what to do. But in fact, I will suggest them to get a new car from any dealer, in case anything happens, they are "hand-tail-free" and simply take the car to the dealer and get it fixed.

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-1-31 05:23

原來係揾交嘈

新手，真係可以買Xsi嫁~~
有無數case三分鐘熱度入左DSLR，
最後嫌佢大部帶出街麻煩用番DC影，
部機就咁係屋企做擺設，
或半價出售。

樓主，買部LX3/G11，夠你玩兩年。
如果你唔介意backpack十幾磅野都要去影相，
到時先再上黎問。

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-1-31 06:44

OT a bit。。。我覺得newbie開車嘅同newbie玩相機唔應該相題並論。新手開車，睇位唔係咁熟，容易啲揩花，意外機會相對高，開架經濟啲嘅車（二手or not），整嘅時候無咁肉痛。但係相機唔會咁易用壞嗰喎，只係講究function多與少嚟俾用家去實習。買dslr，真係要at least2 lens，次次帶成袋嘢出街，都幾係嘢架。

作者: maanmo 時間: 2010-1-31 09:53

as a new hand my self

what is most helpful  is not having the right ideal DSLR

  the most useful  tools are actually a combination of
a compact wide angle , 10x,  manual focus,  and whatever manual control you can think o
of

get a slim one for $300
carry and forget, shoot any time you feel like learning

DSLR , you can learn without
if you feel like it, grab one,  grab any one...
play with it  and  chances are  , you will want to grab a new one in a year 's time

with DSLR , they are all best, best for one year. no good the next year
talking DSLR is like talking about girls with president Clinton

by all means ,  play cameras , play DSLR

but dont forget  you need a wife
president clinton would not be president without hillary
its the wife  who gives the support clinton needs to be president

its that compact  all purpose camera  that you carry around with that help you learn
photography

now go out and grab a DSLR,
  experience the joy of  playing cameras  yourself
  the point is grab one now,  no need to ask which one is best,
they are all best now, they are all no good , a year from now

作者: daimo 時間: 2010-1-31 11:05

Newbies should look for a camera that supports EASY access to manual mode, regardless of new/used/SLR/all-in-one(!).

Some people will NEVER buy used electronics. It's their preference and in their blood, it's not about right or wrong.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-31 11:43

I didn't see you guys suggested an used or a second hand DSLR, but a brand new prosumer.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-31 01:23

See post #4:

Scour Craigslist and look for an old 20D, an old XT, or and old XTi. When you've developed some sense of what you're doing behind one of those cameras, then it's time to re-consider what you should buy (and chances are, it wouldn't be another camera body).

-Lik
Lik 發表於 2010-1-29 23:46

And then see post #17 where Chobit made a good point of caution about used camera gear:

Depends on how much money you can save.., craigslist is a good souce.. yet.. it can be risky, since I know people out there selling heavily used old DSLR, and there is very little way you can tell if it's about to die or not..

EL
chobit 發表於 2010-1-30 17:36

It's true that some used gear have been heavily used (or even abused), which is why the buyer have to exercise caution before they buy. While you can't always inspect the shutter count on a particular camera, general wear and tear is pretty easy to see. (Actually, there are programs like EOS Info that allows you to check the camera's shutter count.) Last but not least, I am always surprised by the number of mint condition, minimally used camera bodies selling for cheap out there -- 2000 shots 20D because the owner upgraded to a 40D; 4000 shots 30D because the owner upgraded to 50D; 3000 shot XTi because the owner upgraded to a 7D.

Unless you know well enough about cars, I won't suggest a "newbie" to buy used cars cuz in case the car break down in the middle of the road or something happens, they will have no idea what's going on and what to do. But in fact, I will suggest them to get a new car from any dealer, in case anything happens, they are "hand-tail-free" and simply take the car to the dealer and get it fixed.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-31 01:28

If you were to logically think about this for just a little longer, you'd realize that:

1) most people are not experts on cars
2) on any given day, there are far more people buying used cars than there are buying new
3) most cars run well enough that they don't require frequent repairs

You know, I really hate to bust you like this all the time.

-Lik

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-31 11:46

Some people will NEVER buy used electronics. It's their preference and in their blood, it's not about right or wrong.
daimo 發表於 2010-1-31 11:05

And cheapa$$es like me are extremely thankful of that because it means we have access to mint condition and minimally used electronics that allows us to streeeeeeeeeeetch our dollars. Same goes for cars and many other big ticket items.

-Lik

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-1-31 12:29

Some people will NEVER buy used electronics. It's their preference and in their blood, it's not about right or wrong.

果D人可能當左部機係老婆

換個想法
每次買舊機等如叫一次雞
一年叫幾次
就唔會再介意

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 13:35

See post #4:

And then see post #17 where Chobit made a good point of caution about used camera gear:

It's true that some used gear have been heavily used (or even abused), which is why the buyer ha ...

1) most people are not experts on cars
2) on any given day, there are far more people buying used cars than there are buying new
3) most cars run well enough that they don't require frequent repairs

You know, I really hate to bust you like this all the time.
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 11:43

Thanks for pointing these out again.
However, choosing an used or brand new DSLR is the second issue, first thing is, why a newbie shouldn't get a DSLR to learn in the first place? Who said once get into an interest, one should keep it for a life time? You want to tell me you guys who have DSLR are now regret and want to sell them all out, and want to go back to use prosumer for your rest of your life? Can you deny that you have short term or longer term enjoyment and fulfillment for the time you had with your DSLR? Why force others to accept your own experience and feeling? One may feel happy enough to play with DSLR for one year or even one month, what's the problem? How many girlfriends did you guys had before? Can you say it's wasting your time cuz you didn't get married with your ex eventually? I just don't see why people discourage newbies to buy a DSLR in the first place, no matter it's used or new.

*****

1) most people are not experts on cars
True. Same as, most people are not professional photographers. You want to tell me only people expert on cars can/should drive nice cars, and only professional photographers can/should use DSLR?

2) on any given day, there are far more people buying used cars than there are buying new
Any statistic to show whether those people who buy used cars are newbies or somewhat experienced or experts?

3) most cars run well enough that they don't require frequent repairs
You mean used or new ones? In fact, same as choosing used cameras and cars (and many other things too), only if you have enough knowledge on that field so you can tell how good or bad the product is, it's always safer to buy used items from a shop/official dealer since they've reasonable QC on the item and give some sort of warranty to buyers. Buying from individual/private sellers is always at higher risk.

[You know, I really hate to bust you like this all the time. ]
You think you're smart? Only because you are so self-centered and always think you are right and ignore other people's need. How smart you are?!

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-31 15:11

I am not opposed to new photographers buying dSLR at all. In fact, did you ever see me advocate that at any point in this thread? What I am recommending against, however, is that newbies go out and buy a brand new entry level dSLR because there is no shortage of quality 2nd hand cameras out there that'll offer 1) lower prices and/or 2) better features. If the new photographer has no means of sourcing those 2nd hand dSLRs, then go ahead and buy new. But Craigslist and BCCamera forum are popular places where you can often find a lot of good deals on mint condition 2nd hand camera products.

On the part about me being smart -- I honestly do not believe I am smart at all. I have seen and personally known far too many people that are infinitely smarter than I can ever hope to be. However, based on the stuff you write and the empty arguments you put forth time and again, I am fairly certain that I am quit bit smarter than you are.

-Lik

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2010-1-31 22:06

Rebel XS with 18-55mm IS Lens $480 http://accessories.dell.com/sna/ ... dhot&redirect=1

Same thing at Vision $478 http://www2.visions.ca/Catalogue ... &productId=3318

I would not go to Visions simply because I don't like them.

Philip

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 22:33

I am not opposed to new photographers buying dSLR at all. In fact, did you ever see me advocate that at any point in this thread? What I am recommending against, however, is that newbies go out and bu ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 15:11

There are two issues:
1. prosumer vs DSLR;
2. used vs new.

Let's skip no.1 and discuss no.2 without bias.
My concern:
i) Since you people assume "newbie" knows nothing about photography, how can he/she examine the condition of an used camera which is selling by a private/an individual seller (something from the sites you mentioned)? Yes, one might spend less but turn out getting a piece of garbage.
ii) Is it safer to buy used item from a shop that carries certain kind of warranty?

Please answer the questions directly, smart kid.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-1-31 22:35

Rebel XS with 18-55mm IS Lens $480 http://accessories.dell.com/sna/ ... dhot&redirect=1

Same thing at Vision $478 http://www2.visions.ca/Catalogue/Cate ...
pkphilip 發表於 2010-1-31 22:06

Thanks pkphilip, these are really good deal.
And since the price of this DSLR is pretty comparable to some prosumer such as G11, I think it's definitely no harm to start with a DSLR even for newbies.

作者: maanmo 時間: 2010-1-31 23:13

本帖最後由 maanmo 於 2010-2-1 00:35 編輯

maanmo 's hand is always new, may be its because they never touched a DSLR

a rebel xs  is definitely not useful, not attractive
to sex it up, you need at least one more lens
and i doubt  maanmo will take any better photos with it

than with my 3 megapixel 10 x zoom olympus
( by the way, this  olympus  camera  when new, is $500 , 6 years ago )
( maanmo bought it 3 years ago for $90 )

for $600 the canon sx1IS is the standard ( on sale , london drugs , $550 )\

this camera has all the features that a new hand want

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/canon/powershot-sx1-is/canon-powershot-sx1-is-review-11.html

""""
The SX1 IS was designed for those who want all the power and abilities of a dSLR, without having to deal with an interchangeable lens system

Bottom line - Canon has produced one awesome digital powerhouse, that can be used by anyone! The SX1 is a perfect 'bridge' camera that fills the gap between consumer point-n-shoots and entry-level dSLR systems. While the price is close to a dSLR kit, there are several features you will not get on most dSLRs at this price point, like the 20x optical zoom, image stabilization, a 2.8-inch articulating LCD, full HD movie mode, etc

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-2-1 00:08

My concern:
i) Since you people assume "newbie" knows nothing about photography, how can he/she examine the condition of an used camera which is selling by a private/an individual seller (something from the sites you mentioned)? Yes, one might spend less but turn out getting a piece of garbage.
ii) Is it safer to buy used item from a shop that carries certain kind of warranty?
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-31 22:33

Sigh...

dSLR don't really contain any user serviceable parts at all. Entry level models has more plastic parts, but the mid level dSLR line are built *very* solidly (at least, this is true of both Canon and Nikon bodies). If the camera has been subjected to abuse during its previous ownership, you can easily tell by a careful inspection. Does the battery compartment cover close positively? Does the memory card cover feel loose and flappy when you close it? Does the shutter button click smoothly and positively, returning to its full height upon release, or does it get stuck after it has been depressed? Is the metal lense mount badly scratched, chipped, or otherwise dinged up? Do the lens contacts look worn out? Does the shutter clicking sound seem crisp, or does it sound like it's ready to fall apart any moment? Does the hot shoe mount have a lot of scratches (signs of frequent flash inserts and removal)? Does the tripod mounting hole and nearby area have scratches and dings?

If you are buying lenses, you are going to check the glass for clarity, right? You should also check for dust spots and inspect the electrical contacts and mounting ring. Does the zoom and focus rings turn easily and smoothly? Does it focus correctly? You are gonna check the actual operation of the items before you pay, right?

Last but not least, does the seller seem like he is an honest enough person that wouldn't lie about the thing he is trying to sell you?

None of these are rocket science type of observations -- just typical caveat emptor type of thing to do when you buy anything of value.

The only thing you can't tell for certain is the number of shutter actuations on the camera, but this is generally not a problem. People with entry level model cameras generally don't take a lot of pictures -- it is extremely rare to see those cameras with more than 20k shutter actuations (4k to 9k seems to be the norm), and those cameras' shutters are rated between 50k to 100k actuations (depending on the models). Mid level dSLRs have shutters that are mostly rated at 100k actuations. If the camera has really been used that much, you simply can't miss the amount of wear and tear on the camera's body.

I haven't bought used from a camera store in a long, long time, but from what I have seen and remember, the used products they carry tend to be much older, and generally look like they have been very well-used. Also, they are usually not that cheap because it is expensive for the store to maintain such an inventory. Most importantly, I wonder how much of a warranty the store will give you nowadays -- 30 days, tops? And if it breaks during that time, good luck trying to get your money back -- you'll probably be offered in-store credits only.

-Lik

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-2-1 00:15

Sigh...

dSLR don't really contain any user serviceable parts at all. Entry level models has more plastic parts, but the mid level dSLR line are built *very* solidly (at least, this is true of bo ...
Lik 發表於 2010-2-1 00:08

Long enough which I didn't go all thru.
But if a "newbie" can do all these, I really don't understand why some people suggest a prosumer over a DSLR.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-2-1 00:18

Long enough which I didn't go all thru.
But if a "newbie" can do all these, I really don't understand why some people suggest a prosumer over a DSLR.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-2-1 00:15

LOL~

You asked me for an answer, and I gave it to you. And this is what you tell me.

I rest my case.

-Lik

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-2-1 00:26

LOL~

You asked me for an answer, and I gave it to you. And this is what you tell me.

I rest my case.

-Lik
Lik 發表於 2010-2-1 00:18

Honestly, you didn't answer my questions directly.
So for #2, to buy an older model and/or more well-used camera from a shop which offer a 30 day store credit warranty VS. an individual seller selling you a newer model and/or less-used camera in which you two may likely contact only by emails but no phone number, he/she can grab your money and runaway without even one day warranty and you can never find him/her again. Which case is more risky?

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-2-1 00:28

LOL~

You asked me for an answer, and I gave it to you. And this is what you tell me.

I rest my case.

-Lik
Lik 發表於 2010-2-1 00:18

And if a "newbie" can do all these, he/she is NOT a newbie.

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-2-1 00:54

啋佢都嘥氣。

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-2-1 01:07

O M G!

7 pages??

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-2-1 01:44

睇左咁多版，
其實條友係唔多清楚相機既.......
就好似....新牌仔係都要買棍仔跑車......就彈出黎講...新牌仔點解唔可以買棍仔？唔識踩極力子唔係唔俾買棍仔既理由囉!

我真係見過人....係咁揾個"Zoom"制......有人全程EV+2咁影....

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-2-1 12:01

睇左咁多版，
其實條友係唔多清楚相機既.......
就好似....新牌仔係都要買棍仔跑車......就彈出黎講...新牌仔點解唔可以買棍仔？唔識踩極力子唔係唔俾買棍仔既理由囉!

我真係見過人....係咁揾個"Zoom"制......有人 ...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-2-1 01:44

To compare auto transmission with 棍仔車, you should compare AF with manual camera. You might be an expert in photography, but low common sense.

You guys don't need to agree with me, seems this discussion (argument) should come to an end.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-2-1 12:46

To compare auto transmission with 棍仔車, you should compare AF with manual camera. You might be an expert in photography, but low common sense.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-2-1 12:01

Doh~

auto tranny = prosumer DC
manual tranny = dSLR

When you can't even see how the analogy compares, why do you even bother to write back?

Can't help it when people just like to make a fool out of themselves...

-Lik

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2010-2-1 13:17

Doh~

auto tranny = prosumer DC
manual tranny = dSLR

When you can't even see how the analogy compares, why do you even bother to write back?

Can't help it when people just like to make a fool ou ...
Lik 發表於 2010-2-1 12:46

You were the one who invented pin hole camera? Feel free to think you are the king of the world and ignore all other people's perspective and valid facts, only you (you guys) are right. Whenever there are comments and ideas against you (you guys) is like offending your "expertise" (you/you guys think). Very fine. I know who I am.

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-2-1 19:18

according to my "expertise" AF is merely just "power steering".
comparing it as a car is only a way to let ppl easier to understand.
you know nothing about camera, using a DSLR surely is not a enjoyment if you don"t have the basic.
Dude,your points is very very vain, and show you don't know $hit about this but i'm-loaded-why-not-buy-it-all-you-stupid.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-2-1 20:36

其實...有錢咪玩乜都得囉~~~夠見過人乜都唔識買1D當傻瓜機....錢之嘛~~~~
如果真係唔清楚/新手，prosumer絕對係 Bang for your buck.
如果係想入SLR門檻，就已經知道自己想要D乜同有邊幾部目標。 ...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-1-31 15:04

冇錯! 真係有錢就玩乜都得! 小弟十年前去旅行之前"靈機一觸"想買部DV 去影下野, 結果就唔貴唔買, 用左萬幾蚊港紙去買左一部自己都唔知有乜野好既機. 結果出左一次trip之後, 我就冇用過佢了. 而家諗起都覺得自己好敗家...

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-2-1 20:40

according to my "expertise" AF is merely just "power steering".
comparing it as a car is only a way to let ppl easier to understand.
you know nothing about camera, using a DSLR surely is not a enjoyme ...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-2-2 11:18

Ultraman 真係有錢woh, 你吹得佢脹咩...
人地一入相機鋪, 就會同店員話: "唔該你拎哂全店最貴果三部相機出黎丫."
同d 自由行差唔多, 不過佢會有禮貌d, 識講唔該.

講下笑乍...

作者: siumaibb 時間: 2010-2-2 14:21

O M G!

7 pages??
Catpiano 發表於 2010-2-1 01:07

how come I can only see 5?

作者: siumaibb 時間: 2010-2-2 14:21

stick to topic la guys, how about each of you suggest one camera and explain why......

作者: chobit 時間: 2010-2-3 21:55

Well.. if size is not a concern, I would still recommend buying 1 of the most inexpensive DSLR Canon or Nikon with the kit lens.  It's not very expensive.., but it is easy enough for beginners, high image quality, and you can experience it's pro and con, and it's limitation so you know what's going to be your next step.!  Such as down-grade to something smaller, or smaller or easier to use, or upgrade to other lenses, or body base on what your current camera wouldn't do...!

I have been enjoying my GF1 lately, and I think it's a good camera to try as well..!  It's slightly smaller than DSLR, focus like point & shoot, acceptable noise and image quality, and it allow you to have acceptable depth of field control along with lens changing capability, external flash, etc..!

I only had my GF1 for a month, and I have the 2 pancake lenses and the telep. zoom.  and the external flash..!  I think it's a very fun camera to own...!

歡迎光臨溫哥華老友記討論區 (http://www.loyaukee.com/forum/)