Board logo

標題: 中國超級電腦全球第二強 [打印本頁]
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-1 09:21     標題: 中國超級電腦全球第二強

Peter, I post this one on your behalf.  

中國超級電腦全球第二強
(明報)2010年6月1日 星期二 08:00

國際超級電腦大會公布500強超級電腦名單，中國的「星雲」系統超越眾多歐日超級電腦，躍居全球第二位。

位於深圳    的國家超級計算中心、由曙光公司開發的「星雲」(Nebulae)系統，運算速度達到1.27petaflops，一個petaflops相當於每秒可進行1000萬億次數學運算。

這個排行榜每半年發表一次。除了「星雲」外，中國國防科技大學    研製的「天河一號」亦排名第7，這也是中國首次有2部超級電腦，躋身前10強行列。

世界最快的電腦，仍然是美國    田納西州橡樹嶺國家實驗室的「美洲豹」(Cray Jaguar)超級電腦，該系統主要用於模擬核試驗等，去年11月該電腦在測試中取得了1.75petaflops的運算分數。

《紐約    時報》撰文稱，「星雲」一舉超過了眾多歐洲和日本    的系統，凸顯了中國在科技領域日益增長的實力和雄心。

美國在榜單中仍具有統治性的地位，既是生產最多超級電腦的國家，也是安裝利用最多的國家。

今年的500強超級電腦中，美國共佔了282台，較去年11月的277台有所提高。

不過中國很明顯有在這方面挑戰美國的雄心。曙光的「星雲」使用的是英特爾    和英偉達的芯片。但使用中國自行研發生產芯片的新系統，預期將於今年稍晚些時候問世。一些科學家和工程師表示，該系統可能奪得世界第一稱號。

美國勞倫斯伯克利實驗室的科學家西蒙指出：「唯一清楚的發展是，中國人正在挑戰最高端的超級電腦。」

田納西大學電腦科學家唐加拉表示：「到今年年底，中國的超級電腦運算能力，可能超過歐盟    各國的綜合，而且其系統可能奪得500強的榜首位置，為此我不會感到吃驚。」
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-1 11:16

I posted this already wor.

http://www.loyaukee.com/forum/vi ... &extra=page%3D1
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-1 12:33

你哋兩位媚共份子鍾意自我感覺良好嘅話，我當然唔會阻你。但作為一個電腦人，我就會話，以今時今日嘅電腦科技來講，超唔超級電腦其實真係無乜意義。

The thing is, with the advent of computer networks and distributed computing, many of the most complicated tasks are tackled not by a single supercomputer, but rather are discretized and the work spread out to be done by slower, but much, much, much cheaper systems and processor in parallel.  Doing things this way is far more cost-effective and efficient, and the scalability/flexibility is huge.

So in a sense, China pooling its resource to do something like this hardly surprises me b/c it  can be viewed as yet another 面子工程. What's the point of building one, or even a handful of luxury palaces, when the peasants and common person are still living it mud huts?

-Lik
作者: habitrailspace    時間: 2010-6-1 12:38

they bought others technology and claimed to be their invention. it's just a big clone!
作者: kits013    時間: 2010-6-1 12:41

happy for china
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-1 14:45

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-1 14:49 編輯
你哋兩位媚共份子鍾意自我感覺良好嘅話，我當然唔會阻你。但作為一個電腦人，我就會話，以今時今日嘅電腦科 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-1 12:33


Mr Lik, your comments is flawed as usual. You are just jealous of Chinese progress. On the surface, you are just attacking the CCP, which is understandable, but in fact you are a racist against the Chinese. To morons like you, every thing that Chinese people do is for face only.

It is important that China improves the living standards of the people and their scientific technology level at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

Your comments on "distributed computing" is totally laughable. If you know nothing about supercomputing, then just STFU rather than embarrassing yourself yet again. All the other countries are still building supercomputers, the US, Japan, Europe are all building more new supercomputers. Why else would they do it if there is no such need? This shows there is a need for these computers, unlike what you claimed.

While "distributed computing" is another way of doing it, but you are still distributing work among very power computers. According to the experts the costs are about the same, unlike what you claimed. You still need about the same number of microprocessors to produce about the same amount of computer power, whether they are located at the same location or distributed across disparate locations.

In the US, there are so many universities, government and research labs that have supercomputers. There are so many scientific applications for supercomputers.
All these supercomputers are already cooperating with each other by distributing work among themselves. These computer are getting cheaper to build all the time. Today's supercomputer will look slow compared with the supercomputers 5yrs or 10 yrs from now.

Lik, we talking about government and universities doing advanced scientific research here, not your computer at home running SETI or Prime95 while idling.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-1 14:47

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-1 14:55 編輯
they bought others technology and claimed to be their invention. it's just a big clone!
habitrailspace 發表於 2010-6-1 12:38


You are just jealous of Chinese technology advancement.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-1 14:55

I posted this already wor.
peter236 發表於 2010-6-1 11:16


Oh no, damn it. I thought I would be quicker than you this time.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-1 14:56

Oh no, damn it. I thought I would be quicker than you this time.
rockypath 發表於 2010-6-1 14:55


Thanks for posting.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-1 15:10

但作為一個電腦人，我就會話，以今時今日嘅電腦科技來講，超唔超級電腦其實真係無乜意義。 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-1 12:33


哦? 你係電腦專才? 失覺曬。

As usually expected again, you will 將所有關於中國的事情都要上升到意識形態的層次. I can certainly find 當年紅衛兵打倒一切的精神的影子 on you. It certainly will raise doubts on what you said and your judgements on any issue relating to China and Hong Kong.

First, what is wrong with the technology achievements that China has made? It is just a piece of news about technologies. Why did you have to always turn everything into a political issue?

Second, just ask yourself. Is it your true believe or just to 為反對而反對 when you said supercomputers – “超唔超級電腦其實真係無乜意義”. The reasons you gave are very soft and cannot stand challenges at all. Do you mind to tell us what your specialty is in the field of computing?
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-6-1 16:01

中國全球第二強??

No way! I think everything from 中國 is 全球第 1 強 ?? (according to .. )
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-1 16:13

對住兩個唔識電腦嘅傻仔，又有咩好講呢？

There is nothing wrong with technological achievements themselves. But when the country's per capita income is only in the US$3500/yr range, and a good 10% of the population is still living below the poverty line (as defined by World Bank), pursues of such bleeding edge stuff and other extravagance is a waste of resources. If I were only making Cdn$3500/yr, it'd be pretty stupid for me to go buy the latest Core i7 computer. But hey, I suppose that Core i7 will earn me bragging rights among my peers~

-Lik
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-6-1 16:25

其實每個國家地方都有貧富懸殊嘅問題。咁係唔係代表所有嘅資源都去哂濟貧而唔攪其他科研發展或大型活動？我又覺得唔一定嘅。就算攪奧運，博覽，係就係花咗好多錢，但係我都覺得市民最終都係有得益。宜家中國嘅問題唔係無錢，而係本來用嚟俾平民百姓嘅＄，唔知落咗邊個嗰袋度嗟。
作者: soli    時間: 2010-6-1 16:56

回復 12# Lik
力仔又發謬論。
發展科技係一種投資﹐係國家經濟持續發展所必需既。
力仔唔識經濟咪亂up。
而且比喻錯晒~
要比喻既話﹐就應比作學電腦。
如果得CDN$3500/yr﹐乜唔係更需要學習技能來提高收入嗎﹐即使要節衣縮食。
作者: habitrailspace    時間: 2010-6-1 17:22

You are just jealous of Chinese technology advancement.
peter236 發表於 2010-6-1 14:47


why would i jealous!?
they're using intel cpu, linux os...it's a big clone!
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-6-1 17:44

吓？原來係intel cpu呀？唓～～～～～
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-1 18:07

對住兩個唔識電腦嘅傻仔，又有咩好講呢？

Lik 發表於 2010-6-1 16:13


Whether we are唔識電腦嘅傻仔 is not an issue. Let’s see whether you are a true 電腦專才或電腦磚才. This topic is in your area of specialty; let’s see whether you have the capability to challenge me this time or once again embarrass yourself big time.

First, I guess what you said in post # 3 is about “cloud computing” – a very hot topic in the field packaged under an old concept. Do you know what you said here was already said 20+ years ago? So why do the “stupid” scientists keep on wasting money and resources to build the supercomputers which can be easily replaced by other inexpensive methods and technologies?

Second, from what you said, I 100% sure you don’t even know what a supercomputer is. Can I ask you – “do you think a supercomputer is more powerful than a mainframe?”; “if supercomputer can be replaced, why do we still need the stupid mainframe?”

I will be humbly waiting to hear the lecture from you.
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-1 18:08

你哋兩位媚共份子鍾意自我感覺良好嘅話，我當然唔會阻你。但作為一個電腦人，我就會話，以今時今日嘅電腦科 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 04:33

超級電腦係有用既, 唔係所有野都可以 distributed computing. 你試叫NSA 將d Top Secret 資料由 distributed computing 去分析? 唔係technical 唔得, 而係會violate 左policy.

其實, 起一個呢d 咁既super computer 唔係好難, 有錢有地方就得啦. 只不過, build 之前最好諗下有冇呢個需要law.
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-1 18:13

對住兩個唔識電腦嘅傻仔，又有咩好講呢？

There is nothing wrong with technological achievements thems ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 08:13

睇開d 啦, 朋友~
中國既super computer 既數量唔算好多. 美國差唔多個個州份都有Super Computer 啦! 無可否認, Super computer 真係有實際用途, technical 既野唔講喇, 你諗下如果冇用既話, 美國佬build 咁多台仲乜woh.
中國唔係乜都錯既, 唔好用有色眼鏡睇所有既事, 咁樣受害既只係自己.
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-1 18:15

吓？原來係intel cpu呀？唓～～～～～
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-6-2 09:44

唔用Intel 都可以用AMD 既, 而家d AMD 既CPU 都好似唔錯咁.
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-1 18:16

其實每個國家地方都有貧富懸殊嘅問題。咁係唔係代表所有嘅資源都去哂濟貧而唔攪其他科研發展或大型活動？我 ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-6-2 08:25

fibbi, 小弟極度贊同你既諗法.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-1 23:18

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-1 23:20 編輯
其實每個國家地方都有貧富懸殊嘅問題。咁係唔係代表所有嘅資源都去哂濟貧而唔攪其他科研發展或大型活動？我 ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-6-1 16:25


I agree with you here. Like at the Olympics and the Shanghai Expo, most of the money was spent on basic infrastructure that they needed anyway, e.g new highways, subways, airport expansion, water supply system, solar power etc.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-1 23:29

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-1 23:59 編輯
There is nothing wrong with technological achievements thems ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-1 16:13


Lik, like you have shown many times before, you have no clue as to how to develop a country's technology. You claimed to be expert in cars, photography etc and now computers? What a joke you are?

If you have only $3500/yr, that is your own problem.
In fact, research results from supercomputing e.g petroleum exploration, can generate income for the country as a whole, thereby raising per capita GDP.
But like you said China's GDP is now $3500 per capita. So how high should their per capita GDP be, before they should invest in supercomputers, $20,000 per capita? $30,000 per capita?
At the current rate of economic growth of about 10% per year, it is going to take another 20-30 years to reach that level. By that time China will be lagging far behind other countries in supercomputers. This is the right time for China to start their supercomputer technology as it has broad range of scientific applications.
作者: chobit    時間: 2010-6-2 00:46

I did some math on how much 1.27 petaFLOPS in relative terms.
According to the site, Intel iCore 980XE produce 107.55 GFLOPS
or 0.10755 TFLOPS.
1.27 pFLOPS = 1270 GFLOPS.
That's 11808GFLOPS/.10755
so, if we put in 109795 i7 980EX,
Hope I've done the math right.
ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOPS
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-2 01:32

First, I guess what you said in post # 3 is about “cloud computing” – a very hot topic in the field packaged under an old concept.
rockypath 發表於 2010-6-1 18:07

估錯咗啦，sorry。你唔識就係唔識，獻醜就不如藏拙啦～

中國唔係乜都錯既, 唔好用有色眼鏡睇所有既事, 咁樣受害既只係自己.
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-6-1 18:13

中國當然唔係做乜野都錯。但當你咁多地方都仲係窮到燶嘅時候，我就唔該你唔好搞咁多尖端科技野，做多啲民生嘅實務。要追尖端科技嘅話永遠都係一件無敵燒銀紙嘅事。當個成本效益咁低，而你又有其它更逼切、更加 benefitical 嘅事可以做，咁點解要去做啲燒錢嘅事情？

-力
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-2 01:49

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-6-2 01:54 編輯
估錯咗啦，sorry。你唔識就係唔識，獻醜就不如藏拙啦～
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 01:32


Lik, so you chose to be a coward and do not to have the gut to face me again? It is in your area of specialty and you still decide to run away once again?

Just tell us why do the “stupid” scientists keep on building supercomputers while what your said about supercomputers was already said 20 years ago?

If I am wrong, do you have the gut and capability to point out which part of what I said is wrong?

I would suggest you to admit that you do not even know what a supercomputer is. There are quite a few people on this forum are computing experts as well. Don’t make people laugh at you. You have embarrassed yourself enough.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 02:11

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-2 02:17 編輯
估錯咗啦，sorry。你唔識就係唔識，獻醜就不如藏拙啦～


中國當然唔係做乜野都錯。但當你咁多地方都仲係 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 01:32


You stupid moron, supercomputers can in fact make money and improve the living standards of the ordinary people.
Like I said before, research results from supercomputing e.g petroleum exploration, aerospace, finance, software, biiotechnology, and other research at universities etc are generating income for the country as a whole, thereby raising per capita GDP. The return of investments are in the billions of dollars. That is why so many countries are using supercomputers.

So please STFU and admit your ignorance, if you know nothing about computer technology and their applications..
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-2 02:15

You stupid moron, supercomputers can in fact improve the living standards of the ordinary people.
...
peter236 發表於 2010-6-2 02:11


Lik does not know what a supercomputer is, where it is used and what the application of the power of supercomputers is for.  What can we expect from him?

Instead of keeping BS, I would seriously suggest him to shut up. Shame on him to call himself a 電腦人.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 02:17

Lik does not know what a supercomputer is, where it is used and what the application of the power  ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-6-2 02:15


He just likes to bash the Chinese whatever they does. Just laugh at this stupid clown.
作者: habitrailspace    時間: 2010-6-2 08:46

if u wanted to post something good about china in the computer industry, you should post dr. an wang!
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-2 08:57

if u wanted to post something good about china in the computer industry, you should post dr. an wang ...
habitrailspace 發表於 2010-6-2 08:46


Don't get what you want to say here.

However, I happen to know a Hong Kong lady worked under Dr. An Wang and her husband (I don't know him in person) was a VP in An Wang's company as well. The husband later worked for IBM and the lady worked for Cisco's competitor.
作者: habitrailspace    時間: 2010-6-2 09:38

Don't get what you want to say here.

However, I happen to know a Hong Kong lady worked under Dr.  ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-6-2 08:57


he was the one who invented magnetic core memory
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2010-6-2 11:30

本帖最後由 MoiRhapsody 於 2010-6-2 11:41 編輯
fibbi, 小弟極度贊同你既諗法.
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-6-1 18:16



當北京十萬上訪人民有冤無路訴，胡溫訪災爛秀與他們何干？
當上海強遷戶引訴無門無處容身，世博千年盛典與他們何干？
當西北學童上課無筆無紙無教室，國研電腦封亞與他們何干？
作者: chobit    時間: 2010-6-2 11:39

No pen/ No Paper is not a problem, since computer is supposed to bring in paperless enviroment.  Why need pen, when you can type on a keyboard, and why need paper, when you can click file-save..!  Wait... maybe they don't have any electricity to start with =(

當上海強遷戶引訴無門無處容身，世博盛典與他們何干？
當西北學童上課無筆無紙無教室，電腦封亞與他們何 ...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-6-2 11:30
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 11:50

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-2 11:53 編輯
當北京十萬上訪人民有冤無路訴，胡溫訪災爛秀與他們何干？
當上海強遷戶引訴無門無處容身，世博千年盛典 ...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-6-2 11:30


The supercomputers can in fact make money and thereby improve the living standards of the ordinary people.
Like I said before, research results and applications from supercomputing e.g petroleum exploration, aerospace, finance, software, biotechnology, and other research at universities etc are generating income for the country as a whole, thereby raising per capita income. The return of investments are in terms of billions of dollars. That is why so many countries are using supercomputers.

Those residents on the Shanghai Expo site were given new apartments by the government. Some of the old apartments did not have modern wash room or proper heating anyway. So it is a big upgrade for the residents there.
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-6-2 11:58

就算啲＄唔攪奧運世博，都唔一定落到百姓個袋，根本就係貪腐嚴重，無法紀就乜都假。
我唔會覺得攪啲大型活動係一啲得着都無囉。至少，啲市民會被迫"知會"要排隊, 守禮，而且啲市容都好咗啲嘅。又多咗啲公共設施，都唔係壞事。當然，你會話花咁多錢值唔值，咁就見人見智。

咁換個topic，你哋覺得我哋攪冬奧有應唔應該？我哋都有好多貧窮問題喎。啲＄係唔係用嚟濟貧好啲？
不過，我又覺得大家喺冬奧其間都好投入喎，直情好似與民同樂咁，咁大家又覺得有無得着？
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-2 13:41

A lot of the lavish exhibits in Shanghai will be torn down after the Expo event. How much did it cost to build those? And how long have they been in use for? And with all the construction and demolition, have you considered the amount of environmental impact and inconvenience that the city will have to endure?

The Winter Olympics is a waste of money as well, although in terms of infrastructure, we are doing a much better job than the Shanghai Expo and the Beijing Olympics. Much of the Winter Olympic events were held at existing venues, some of which underwent significant renovations. The Richmond Oval was new, and the track is getting torn down after the games, but at least the entire structure will be preserved and converted to a multi-use sports complex where common citizens can continue to take advantage of the facilities on a daily basis.

By comparison, the Watercube is being converted into a waterpark, while the Bird's Nest is being gutted and turned into a shopping mall and high class hotel.

Last but not least, the Canadian per capatia income is almost US$40k, while China's is around US$3500. I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions about which country is in a better position to host major international events.

And may I remind you that in recent memory, China has already held the Beijing Olympics in 2008, the World Expo in Shanghai right now, and Guangzhou will be holding the Asian Games (亞運會) in November. How many international events of similar scale has Canada recently held?

-Lik
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 15:03

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-2 15:26 編輯
A lot of the lavish exhibits in Shanghai will be torn down after the Expo event. How much did it cos ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 13:41


Lik, you stupid moron, each country is responsible for paying their own pavilion at the Shanghai Expo. You didn't know about that?
China only pays for China pavalion, which has a solar panel rooftop for generating power for thousands of families.

Canada is just a small country, with big deficits and loads of debt.
They take HST from you.

In terms of investment in infrastructure at the Beijing Olympics and the Shanghai Expo, most of the investments are actually in basic infrastructure that they need anyway, like new subway, highway, expansion of airports, water supply system, solar power etc.
Beijing airport is now the third busiest airport in the world.

Many of the Beijing Olympics venues became parts of the universities there and used by students or by the general public, or became training centers for their various national teams.
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-6-2 15:05

本帖最後由 fibbi 於 2010-6-2 15:08 編輯

沒錯，博覽會的設施在完結之後大多會拆卸。對本地人來說construction／demolition的確會帶來不便。其實我自己都去過幾個博覽會，85 年日本筑波,86年Vancouver，2005日本Aichi縣。博覽會就是我當年決定到當地旅遊的原因。所以至少博覽會都會帶動當地旅遊業。而舉辦得成功的博覽會，的確會為該城市留下正面印象。我相信父母當年看到Vancouver這樣山明水秀，都成為日後選擇移民時要考慮的地方。

至於奧運，更多場館可留於市民享用，所以你問我，我仍然覺得舉辦大型活動得多於失。

至於山區窮困問題，根本不在於政府無＄，而是怎樣分配資源，而分配的資源又有多少落到實際用途而不是官員的口袋。
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-6-2 15:09

回復 38# peter236


    Well, there are a lot of infrastructure needs to be built too. So China govt not only pay for its own pavillion but other infrastructure as well la.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 15:12

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-2 15:28 編輯
回復  peter236


    Well, there are a lot of infrastructure needs to be built too. So China govt n ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-6-2 15:09


But most of these other infrastructure are needed anyway, like new subway, highway, airport expansion, power supply, renovation of the Bund promenade etc
Shanghai is a city of 20+ million people that needs a lot of infrastructure. Like the Shanghai subway system, is one of the largest in the world, with one of the largest ridership.
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-6-2 15:13

回復 41# peter236


No comments...

If without expo...those infrastructure may not be needed at this point...
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 15:14

回復  peter236


No comments...

If without expo...those infrastructure may not be needed at this p ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-6-2 15:13


What do you mean by "may not need? Like what? Shanghai has 20 million people there.
作者: news    時間: 2010-6-2 15:27

which has a solar panel rooftop for generating power for thousands of families.
peter236 發表於 2010-6-2 15:03



    are you referring to the power a lot of areas in China don't even get or only get with limited time every week?

Canada is just a small country, with big deficits and loads of debt.
They take HST from you.
peter236 發表於 2010-6-2 15:03


why are you still here then?
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 15:31

are you referring to the power a lot of areas in China don't even get or only get with limite ...
news 發表於 2010-6-2 15:27


For the remote areas of China they have hydro power from the Three Gorges power plant and other hydro power plant. Also, they are transporting clean burning natural gas from Russia and western Xinjiang province to other parts of China for heating purposes.
So unlike what you claimed, power supply all over China is reliable.
作者: eddie    時間: 2010-6-2 15:48

回復 42# fibbi

Same as Canada Line. If there is no Winter Olympics, we properly won't see a Canada Line.
Even it will be built, nobody know when and will the federal Government willing to put in money.
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-2 15:58

So unlike what you claimed, power supply all over China is reliable.
peter236 發表於 2010-6-2 15:31

笑爆嘴～唔該你去問下東莞或廣東省其他工業區問吓啲廠佬邊個無試過 rolling blackout。唔該之後再去埋全國問足 13億人先好返來話過我聽有無 rolling blackout 喎？

記得之前睇過話上海世博有三類展館，而其中一類係阿爺 um錢出來起，而再邀請啲窮啲嘅國家免費展覽嘅。再者，內地嘅建築地盤係點樣擾民法，我唔該你個低能仔自己去睇一睇。

為世博、為奧運而起基建，呢個「道理」我一直都唔 buy。個社會真係有需要嘅話，你政府點解唔起個基建？Sea-to-Sky Highway 一直都危險，點解要等到冬奧先至擴建同拉直？EverGreen Line 講咗19幾年，係唔係唔響 Tricities 攪奧運就一直拖住唔起？出入 Surrey 一直勁塞，咁 Port Mann 橋同 Pattulo 係咪就一直都唔整？！

-力
作者: soli    時間: 2010-6-2 16:10

本帖最後由 soli 於 2010-6-2 16:11 編輯

回復 47# Lik
你唔buy因為你唔識野﹐你淨係識buy 毒茶壺﹐人地係用黎觀賞既你就拿來沖茶~
好在個政府你無份run唧~
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-2 16:59

Yeah, certain I don't know shxt. So would you please explain to me why even when there is a need, the necessary infrastructure doesn't get built unless a major international event is held?

Yeah, I don't know shxt~

-Lik
作者: soli    時間: 2010-6-2 17:51

看eddie 君既post 找答案。
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-2 19:08

Read my posts again about how much extra infrastructure and stadiums GVRD has built to accommodate the Winter Games, and think back to how much Beijing and Shanghai has built for the Olympics and World Expo, and what is happening to all those extra stadiums after the event. Guess which city has seen more waste.

-Lik
作者: soli    時間: 2010-6-2 19:32

加拿大得3千萬人﹐有幾多個stadiums﹐北京上海有幾多人幾多stadiums呀?
力仔咪成日坐住個腦啦。
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-6-2 20:04

加拿大得3千萬人﹐有幾多個stadiums﹐北京上海有幾多人幾多stadiums呀?
力仔咪成日坐住個腦啦。 ...
soli 發表於 2010-6-2 19:32


你睇吓邊個國家 玩咩運動 用咩場館
大陸 你睇吓有幾多足球場   


無知並不是罪﹐  真正的罪是以無知為榮
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-2 20:09

你睇吓邊個國家 玩咩運動 用咩場館
大陸 你睇吓有幾多足球場   


無知並不是罪﹐  真正的罪是以無知為 ...
sheep 發表於 2010-6-3 12:04

而家中國既運動都發展得幾好架woh.
足球場, 主要係因為中超聯既發展, 先至令全國都有d 比較有規模既球場. 英國仲多球場啦~
大陸大型運動館真係冇乜, 好多人都o係公園打羽毛球架乍, 又或者o係d 小社區打下乒乓球咁law.
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-6-2 20:11

本帖最後由 sheep 於 2010-6-2 20:13 編輯

回復 54# mcjohnjohn


   邊個國家 玩咩運動 用咩場館

got it?

去 GM PLACE 睇打乒乓球?
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-2 21:05

回復  mcjohnjohn


   邊個國家 玩咩運動 用咩場館

got it?

去 GM PLACE 睇打乒乓球? ...
sheep 發表於 2010-6-3 12:11

你咁講法, 市民連選擇運動既權利都冇啦...
中共領導人: 同志們, 你地只可以打羽毛球同乒乓球, 因為我國係羽毛球同乒乓球強國, 同志們唔可以打其他波!!!
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 21:34

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-2 21:57 編輯
Read my posts again about how much extra infrastructure and stadiums GVRD has built to accommodate t ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 19:08


Winter Olympics in Vancouver is different from Beijing Olympics and Shanghai Expo. I have already showed you how most of the basic infrastructure in Beijing and Shanghai are not wasted.
In fact, in all three cases, Vancouver, Beijing and Shanghai, I can see that the investment is, in general, justified and not wasted.
Maybe there is less "waste" in Vancouver 2010, but the winter Olympics is so small compared with the summer Olympics and the Expo.
So please stop you nonsense bashing of Beijing and Shanghai.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-6-2 21:42

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-6-2 21:51 編輯
笑爆嘴～唔該你去問下東莞或廣東省其他工業區問吓啲廠佬邊個無試過 rolling blackout。唔該之後再去埋全國 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 15:58


You stupid moron, that is why the return from infrastructure investment in Beijing and Shanghai are bigger than that from Vancouver. Economic growth in China is still way higher than in Canada.

We are talking about 15 million population in Beijing and 20 million population in Shanghai. Most of the Olympics investments are in basic infrastructure, not Olympics stadium. For example, the new subways, highspeed railway and highways in Beijing and Shanghai are not even enough to service their big population. The new airport expansion in Beijing allowed Beijing to become the third busiest airport in the world in 2009. The new water supply system in Beijing provides clean water to the residents.

Many of the Beijing Olympics venues became parts of the local universities there and are used by students or by the general public, or became training centers for their various national sports teams.

Lik, you lost the argument on supercomputers, then you diverted to the Olympics. But now you lost the argument on Olympics and the Expo again.
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-2 21:44

Peter 仔, 都係怪中國有太多陰暗既事喇.
無論本身件事係點都好, d 人都會因為中國曾經發生過既陰暗既事而有所聯想, 令到一件本身係好事既事都變左做壞事. 就好似之前果個乜野礦難為列, 報導話救到d 人, 本身應該係一件開心既事, 但係d 人會聯想到中國成日造假, 救災都係假啦~ 仲要人人都好似偵探咁搵件事既破綻.
試問如果件事發生o係一d 先進d 既國家, d 人會唔會咁諗丫?
冇計, 好事不出戶, 醜事傳千里丫麻.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-3 01:51

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-6-3 01:59 編輯

I will give one example of the application of supercomputers which directly benefits 平民百姓 daily life.

Weather forecast and earthquake prediction is an area where supercomputers are heavily relied on. The complexity of simulation model depends on the power of the supercomputers and that decides the capability of weather forecast and earthquake prediction.

If China had the capability to predict 四川大地震，華中大水災，西南大旱災, how many lives would be saved, how many families would stay intact, how much damage would be minimized? When you say it is a waste of money to build supercomputer, do you know what you are saying?

You should be shameful of what you do NOT know when you laugh at other people who do not have a computer science degree as you do.

If I response to your comments of investing in science and technology research and development is a waste of money and 忽視 the needs of 平民百姓, it will be another big time embarrassment to you.

When you say something, you better think carefully whether you are aware of what you are going to say. Otherwise, it will be another embarrassment to you.   


但當你咁多地方都仲係窮到燶嘅時候，我就唔該你唔好搞咁多尖端科技野，做多啲民生嘅實務。要追尖端科技嘅話永遠都係一件無敵燒銀紙嘅事。當個成本效益咁低，而你又有其它更逼切、更加 benefitical 嘅事可以做，咁點解要去做啲燒錢嘅事情？ ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-2 01:32
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-3 02:13

Predicting disasters, eh? What good does the best prediction do when the buildings are 豆腐渣 construction before and AFTER the natural disasters? What good does the best supercomputer do when local officials are corrupted to the core, and wouldn't think twice about hording the relief supplies and turning around to sell them to make a profit?

Stupid blind idiots...

-Lik
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-3 02:26

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-6-3 02:37 編輯
Predicting disasters, eh? What good does the best prediction do when the buildings are 豆腐渣 constr ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-3 02:13


You are a TOTAL coward and cold blooded.

The capability of predicting natural disaster is the goal which scientists of every country would scarify their whole life to strike to achieve. This capability will save thousands and millions of lives and families. Unfortunately, it just worth shxt in your eyes.

Do you have any respect to scientists who work to build this capability and people who lost their lives and homes in natural disasters?

You are just a shxt and I totally look down on you.
作者: samsung    時間: 2010-6-3 07:50

對住兩個唔識電腦嘅傻仔，又有咩好講呢？

There is nothing wrong with technological achievements thems ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-1 16:13


I have a feeling that he is just switching computer, answering each other ja bor
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-6-3 07:52

回復 56# mcjohnjohn


    英國玩足球 有好多足球場
美國換籃球 同冰棍球 又玩棒球
所以好多呢類場館
有 係因 有需要 同有需求
唔似大陸 無必要 無需要 無需求
都去起
如果咁 你都唔明
咁你就成埋第四傻
作者: habitrailspace    時間: 2010-6-3 07:57

回復 62# rockypath

"Unfortunately, it just worth shxt in your eyes."

unfortunately they show us shxt all the time
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-3 08:31

The capability of predicting natural disaster is the goal which scientists of every country would scarify their whole life to strike to achieve. This capability will save thousands and millions of lives and families. Unfortunately, it just worth shxt in your eyes.
rockypath 發表於 2010-6-3 02:26

連容易咁多、便宜咁多、又必須嘅救災同災後重建工作都無法做好，仲講乜野高科技預測天災？呢啲叫未學行先學走。

同你啲麻木挺共嘅廢柴真係講多都晒氣。

-力
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-3 12:03

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-6-3 12:12 編輯
連容易咁多、便宜咁多、又必須嘅救災同災後重建工作都無法做好，仲講乜野高科技預測天災？呢啲叫未學行先 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-3 08:31


You will continue to embarrass yourself even more if you don’t know when to shut up and 自我反省.

Based on your opinion, is investing in building the capability on weather forecast which directly affects and benefits people's daily life a waste of money? Is saving people's lives from future disasters also a waste of money?

You 口口聲聲說關心民生問題, but I would say you concern your 面子問題 the most. What a hypocrit you are!

I feel pity for you. You are just fooling yourself instead of other people.
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-3 12:32

Based on your opinion, is investing in building the capability on weather forecast which directly affects and benefits people's daily life a waste of money? Is saving people's lives from future disasters also a waste of money?
rockypath 發表於 2010-6-3 12:03

I love your stupid attempts to twist the examples with the sheer intent to badmouth me.

When you don't even have enough to eat, or enough to wear, is there any point in building sophisticated weather forecasting stations? If a country doesn't even have the means to combat malaria, what the point of trying to build a cancer research center?

Stupid...

-Lik
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-3 12:50

When you don't even have enough to eat, or enough to wear, is there any point in building sophisticated weather forecasting stations? If a country doesn't even have the means to combat malaria, what the point of trying to build a cancer research center?...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-3 12:32


Can you tell it clearly to me and EVERYONE else on this forum?

Is it your position that only the wealthy developed western countries have the rights and reasons to invest in sophisticated technologies when other developing countries don’t?

Do you have the capability to understand what kind of impacts technologies can have on the life of ordinary citizens?

If the developing countries don’t have the capability to perform weather forecast, how would they be able to avoid the lost in natural disaster which can be hundreds and thousands times greater than the money they put in developing the technology?

If they don’t invest in the medical research, how would they be able to prevent the lost of thousands lives when a serious outbreak come after a natural disaster?

If they don’t invest in the technologies in manufacturing and farming, how would they be able to rebuild and excel after a recover from a natural disaster?

Many developing countries put “科技興國” as the national strategic policy for the development of the country. Why would think you are smatter than the police makers and leaders of those countries?

It just show you know NOTHING and just BS without the capability of 自我反省.
作者: Equinox3    時間: 2010-6-3 13:04

thanks for your info
作者: Lik    時間: 2010-6-3 13:05

Stupid...

A country does not chase the pinnacle of technology when the country's citizens are still piss poor and living in poverty. The most advanced computer engineering to build supercomputers, which was the original subject of this thread, counts as one of those pinnacles of technology. Spaces programs, which again China is involved in, counts as another of these pinnacles of technology as well. It is unnecessary because none of these bleeding edge stuff comes cheap.

Now you answer me here -- what good is this advanced weather forecast system when corrupt officials insist on building dams at the likely epic center of earthquakes? (This is exactly what happened already in Sichuan.) What good is advanced medical research when relief supplies and medicines are withheld by corrupt officials, only to be sold for profit? (Again, this happened in the recent earthquake in Ching Hoi.)

You get the basics done before you move on to do the complicated stuff.

-Lik
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-6-3 16:48

回復  mcjohnjohn


    英國玩足球 有好多足球場
美國換籃球 同冰棍球 又玩棒球
所以好多呢類場館
有 係 ...
sheep 發表於 2010-6-3 23:52

不如你 list out 大陸有邊d 體育場館係多左, 比大家分析一下, 而唔係o係度吹水唔抹嘴, 講到大陸d 球場多到行幾步路就到咁.
今次傻果個係你呀, 為左拗而拗.
算啦, 都係我唔好, 係我錯, 比你好d 落台.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-6-3 16:50

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-6-3 16:52 編輯
Now you answer me here -- what good is this advanced weather forecast system when corrupt officials insist on building dams at the likely epic center of earthquakes? (This is exactly what happened already in Sichuan.) What good is advanced medical research when relief supplies and medicines are withheld by corrupt officials, only to be sold for profit? (Again, this happened in the recent earthquake in Ching Hoi.)
...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-3 13:05


You shall be shameful on what you said.

Because there is corruption, there should not be money to put in the development of the technologies that can avoid the lost which can be hundreds and thousands times greater than the money to put in the development of the technologies and the opportunities of saving thousands and millions of lives and families?

Because there were government officers who would resell the medicines for profit, there should not be money to put in the researches which can prevent thousands of people die from disease and outbreaks?

Because there is still poverty, there should not be money to put in the development of technologies in manufacturing and farming to bring people out of poverty?

What kind of 野雞大學 had you graduated from? Didn’t they teach you the social impacts of technology if you graduated from the field of applied science?   

You just once again confirmed what I said about you – you do not care about 民生問題 and you only care about your 面子問題!
作者: soli    時間: 2010-6-3 16:50

回復 72# mcjohnjohn
我從來唔會認真看羊仔講咩既﹐反正一定係廢話~ lol
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-6-3 22:09

回復  mcjohnjohn
我從來唔會認真看羊仔講咩既﹐反正一定係廢話~ lol
soli 發表於 2010-6-3 16:50



   你明咩？
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-6-3 22:35

本帖最後由 sheep 於 2010-6-3 22:36 編輯

回復 72# mcjohnjohn


  
回復  mcjohnjohn


  英國玩足球 有好多足球場
美國換籃球 同冰棍球 又玩棒球
所以好多呢類場館
有 係因 有需要 同有需求
唔似大陸 無必要 無需要 無需求
都去起
如果咁 你都唔明
咁你就成埋第四傻
sheep 發表於 2010-6-3 07:52

講到大陸d 球場多到行幾步路就到咁.
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-6-3 16:48

   你睇乜？
我響邊度咁講？



歡迎光臨 溫哥華老友記討論區 (http://www.loyaukee.com/forum/) Powered by Discuz! 7.2