標題: 廣州一小學禁止學生講粵語致祖孫言語不通 [打印本頁]
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-9 11:48 標題: 廣州一小學禁止學生講粵語致祖孫言語不通
金羊網-羊城晚報7月9日報導
廣州一小學禁止學生講粵語致祖孫言語不通
因為在執信南路小學上學的女兒粵語說得不好，廣州市民曾先生家最近爆發了一場家庭紛爭。原來，執信南路小學“要求”學生不管是上課還是課餘時間，都要講普通話，時間一長，曾先生的女兒粵語荒廢，以致在家也講普通話，這令得不怎麼聽得懂普通話的祖母大發脾氣。
孫女不講粵語祖母發脾氣
曾先生是個地道的廣州人，他的女兒小雯(化名)在執信南路小學讀四年級，普通話說得很流利，但是粵語連個菜名都需要用普通話翻譯過來。小雯的祖母年紀大了，不怎麼聽得懂普通話，跟孫女溝通起來很不方便，平時就有些抱怨。
幾天前，放暑假在家的小雯想吃炸雞翅，就叫祖母去菜場買，但祖母聽不懂普通話發音的“雞翅”，最後沒買回來，祖孫倆為此鬧起了彆扭。一家人晚餐時，祖母氣不過衝著兒子兒媳大發脾氣，指責他們沒教好孩子粵語，稱“這叫忘了根本”！
曾先生後來了解到，今年執信南路小學極力推行普通話教育，有一條“不成文”的規矩，不僅要求學生上課要講普通話，還要求學生在課餘時間與同學們聊天、玩樂時也要講普通話，“他們的口號是，普通話是校園的語言”！
“學校專門讓環保小衛士來監督， 一旦發現有學生講粵語，就會登記名字，交給老師處理。聽我女兒說，違反規定就要扣學分，被扣10分以上就不准做班幹部，還要全校點名批評。”曾先生告訴記者，女兒因為害怕被扣分，再也不敢講粵語，久而久之就不會說了。
部分家長認為禁粵語欠妥
“新廣州人”林先生家也遇到了相同的問題，他的孩子在執信南小學讀六年級。對於學校禁止學生講粵語的做法，林先生說，學校的初衷是為了推廣普通話，但不應該要求孩子在課餘時間也必須講普通話。
“我們以前來廣州找工作時，因為不會粵語而錯過了不少工作機會。如今雖然成為廣州人，但語言問題仍然不時影響到工作。我們不希望自己的過去在孩子身上重演，所以希望孩子能及早說一口流利的粵語。” 林先生說。
在執信南路上班的李姨是個老廣州，她表示，粵語是本地方言，作為一個廣州本地人，講不好粵語說不過去，但普通話也要學好。採訪中，家長大多有類似的想法，他們都覺得學校嚴厲“要求”孩子們在課餘不能講粵語的做法欠妥。他們希望學校既提倡孩子們在課堂講普通話，但不能禁止孩子們在課餘講粵語，畢竟雙語教學最適合孩子。
老師稱學校做法無可厚非
昨天下午，記者想就“封殺”粵語一事採訪執信南路小學負責人，但在校門口被保安攔住。後來，保安叫來一位男性老師，記者提出想進學校看“禁止講粵語”的相關規定，但對方表示“沒有文字規定”，並表示，“要想進校內採訪，需經區教育局批准”。
該校一位不願透露姓名的老師事後告訴記者，“要掌握一門語言，光靠課堂上的一點時間，肯定是不夠的，必須在日常交流中大量使用，學校要求學生在校內多講普通話的做法無可厚非”。這位老師希望家長“要理解學校做法，絕對是為了孩子好”！
記者隨後採訪了越秀區教育局。該局有關人士只給出一句話答复：教育部門沒有明文規定學生在校園一定不許講粵語，只是提倡大力推廣普通話。
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-9 11:52
本末倒置。如果依照學校嘅呢個講法，咁呢個世界就唔會有人識多過一種語言啦？響香港同廣東省，要追求嘅其實絕對應該係兩文三語（中英文、國粵英語），又點會要齋講普通話咁低B？
-力
作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-7-9 11:57
Suen ba la... soon .. cantonese will be gone .. sigh .. who cares about little hong kong ar ..
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-9 12:13
It just saddens me to see stupid stuff like this law. If my understanding is correct, a similar problem is happening in Shanghai as well, only that the problem is far more extensive. In Taipei, friends have also told me that the younger kids are generally not very fluent in 閩南話 anymore, whereas the problem is not as big among the older generation.
-Lik
作者: starbug 時間: 2010-7-9 13:11
痴九線.
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-9 13:24
痴九線.
starbug 發表於 2010-7-9 13:11 
敢問 starbug 兄係覺得邊個黐鳩線？係小弟嘅言論？定係學校嘅做法呢？
-力
作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-9 15:20
敢問 starbug 兄係覺得邊個黐鳩線？係小弟嘅言論？定係學校嘅做法呢？
-力 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-9 13:24
作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-9 15:21
Suen ba la... soon .. cantonese will be gone .. sigh .. who cares about little hong kong ar ..
Catpiano 發表於 2010-7-9 11:57
gone? 
作者: Arlui 時間: 2010-7-9 15:22
I would think people would like kids to learn more than one language....
作者: kingkong123 時間: 2010-7-9 21:12
另一场的文革
就好似以前摧毁一切文物甘，你共产党做麽好野
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 21:32
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-9 21:33 編輯
另一场的文革
就好似以前摧毁一切文物甘，你共产党做麽好野
kingkong123 發表於 2010-7-9 21:12
Are you truely from mainland China?
Lik deos not know much about China and he always wears a 有色眼鏡. Therefore, I can forgive his blindness abnout China.
If you are from China, you should know the true story and be able to tell why this story is biased and not reflecting the true and general situation in China.
Welcome to challenge me if you can.
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-9 21:34
Welcome to challenge me if you can
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-9 21:32
So you are from Mainland China
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 21:38
本末倒置。如果依照學校嘅呢個講法，咁呢個世界就唔會有人識多過一種語言啦？響香港同廣東省，要追求嘅其實 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-9 11:52
What you said here is truely 本末倒置 and 低B.
If you 唔服氣, do you want me to tell you why you are 低B?
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-9 21:42
本帖最後由 sheep 於 2010-7-9 22:07 編輯
回復 11# rockypath
http://www.loyaukee.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=15136
呢鑊又點計先？
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 21:42
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-9 21:45 編輯
So you are from Mainland China
sheep 發表於 2010-7-9 21:34
Doesn't have to be from Mainland to know about China. If you know about China, you should be able to tell who is BSing even if that person claims to be from China.
I believe you don't have this kind of knowledge and experience at all. I am afraid you have not really been to China for a long time or never at all. You seem to be very afraid of China. It is very typical of people who have a misconception about China.
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 21:47
回復 rockypath
呢鑊又點計先？
sheep 發表於 2010-7-9 21:42
What is this? Cannot view it.
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-9 21:48
回復 13# rockypath
呢個我知你諗咩
有國先有家
國要你學國語
你就唔好用屋企講嘅家語 即係鄉下話
以後 上海人唔準講上海話 北京人唔準講北京話
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 21:54
回復 rockypath
呢個我知你諗咩
有國先有家
國要你學國語
你就唔好用屋企講嘅家語 即係鄉下話
以後 ...
sheep 發表於 2010-7-9 21:48
I will test whether you have the ability to receive what I will hint you in the question below.
What is the reason the parents will give all they have to support their Children going to school to receive education?
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-9 21:55
What you said here is truely 本末倒置 and 低B.
If you 唔服氣, do you want me to tell you why you ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-9 21:38
LOL~ 真係睬你都有味～
-力
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 21:57
LOL~ 真係睬你都有味～
-力
Lik 發表於 2010-7-9 21:55
I know you won’t have the gut to challenge me because you know it will be another embarrassment to you.
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-9 21:58
回復 18# rockypath
LOL~ 真係睬你都有味～
-羊
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-9 22:11
乜 咁快 石沈大海
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 22:14
乜 咁快 石沈大海
sheep 發表於 2010-7-9 22:11
Do you have anything meaningful to say other than spiting shxt?
作者: peter236 時間: 2010-7-9 22:56
本末倒置。如果依照學校嘅呢個講法，咁呢個世界就唔會有人識多過一種語言啦？響香港同廣東省，要追求嘅其實 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-9 11:52
This time I agree with you. The Guangzhou students should learn Cantonese, Mandarin, English and even their village dialects at the same time.
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-9 23:01
This time I agree with you. The Guangzhou students should learn Cantonese, Mandarin, English and e ...
peter236 發表於 2010-7-9 22:56
Why not French as well if they are thinking of coming to Canada one day?
作者: salad_bread 時間: 2010-7-10 08:33
Cantonese is a dialects only.
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-10 08:35
Doesn't have to be from Mainland to know about China
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-9 21:42
即係話 老毛唔係你老豆
但係你都會當佢係
同一線性思維
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-10 08:55
本帖最後由 sheep 於 2010-7-10 08:56 編輯
回復 26# salad_bread
言語 係用來溝通
係文化嘅一部分
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-10 09:19
即係話 老毛唔係你老豆
但係你都會當佢係
同一線性思維
sheep 發表於 2010-7-10 08:35
If you can speak human language, can you answer this question?
What kind of reactions will you expect from the parents and families if their children can only speak Canton style mandarin with Cantonese accent after going to school?
What will the newspaper write this story and which side will it stand?
Think in a human way if you wan to understand the human world.
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-10 09:44
On a related note, there has been signs that the Mandarin-speaking authorities are attempting to suppress Cantonese in general. Cantonese-speaking television programs in Guangzhou is being dramatically cut back, and I've heard that during prime time (7 - 10 in the evening), none of the major tv stations are broadcasting Cantonese programs.
This is a stupid and worrying trend. As Mr. King Kong was saying, this is yet another wave of "cultural revolution" to destroy our own Chinese culture.
-Lik
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-10 09:54
我覺得
係中央政府為咗要令新疆 蒙古呢啲地區
被漢化而做嘅
你睇 連廣東話 上海話 湖南話 咩話都唔準講
我係一視同人 你歸化喇
可憐為咗所謂國土完整而犧牲自己嘅文化
共產黨 又有咩做唔出丫
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-10 10:16
回復 24# peter236
似番個人講野
作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-7-10 10:29
粤语係海外勢力巨大，因為廣東人有乜事一定走先。
北佬同我地根本係兩種人，普通話還好，北京話真係聽死人。
作者: peter236 時間: 2010-7-10 13:05
粤语係海外勢力巨大，因為廣東人有乜事一定走先。
北佬同我地根本係兩種人，普通話還好，北京話真係聽死人 ...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-7-10 10:29
If you don't understand the Beijing dialect, or any other Chinese dialect, that is your own problem.
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-10 18:22
回復 34# peter236
你用含欖咁嘅聲同人講野
都無人聽倒
係邊個問題
作者: starbug 時間: 2010-7-10 18:45
敢問 starbug 兄係覺得邊個黐鳩線？係小弟嘅言論？定係學校嘅做法呢？
-力 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-9 13:24
我D咁反"煲冬瓜"嘅港英餘孽, 梗係講緊學校啦..
作者: kingkong123 時間: 2010-7-10 20:59
本帖最後由 kingkong123 於 2010-7-10 21:02 編輯
Are you truely from mainland China?
Lik deos not know much about China and he always wears a 有 ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-9 21:32
共产党可以叫你批斗老豆老母，有什么事做唔出
越来越少人讲广东话就等于一个语言的消亡，语言系也是历史的一部分，系摸不到的文物
我系大陆读过书，大陆学校禁讲广东话我读书的时候都经历过，唔通你个白痴在识得多过我吗？ 你收皮啦细路，你没吃饱米田共 返去吃多D现出来。
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-10 23:07
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-10 23:16 編輯
我系大陆读过书，大陆学校禁讲广东话我读书的时候都经历过，唔通你个白痴在识得多过我吗？ 你收皮啦细路，你没吃饱米田共 返去吃多D现出来。...
kingkong123 發表於 2010-7-10 20:59
If you said CPP purposely trying to eliminate Cantonese, please show your evidences, don’t just BS about your 陰謀論 and use it as your supporting evidences. There are less and less aboriginal people speak their own languages. I don’t think there are many TV channels showing aboriginal language programs and I won’t be surprised if there is none. Will you say the Canadian government purposely tries to eliminate the aboriginal languages?
What is the mission of general school? Isn’t it to teach children the knowledge and skills they need to be able to develop their career and future? Language skills are essentially crucial to their career development. Can I ask how good is your Mandarin? Do you have Cantonese accent? Have you ever encountered difficulty in finding a job because of your language deficiency?
You can certainly deny it and say you have never encountered this kind of problem. What I can tell you is that I had seen many when I was evolved in projects in China. It is especially challenging to young people who are from the non-Mandarin speaking regions. Some types of job even require that they must pass the Mandarin oral skill test (at least level 4). Do you know about this? I believe you don’t.
Cantonese is a dialect and the main mission for general school is not to protect a local dialect. To protect it should be the mission of other specialized organizations. General school is to give children the skills to survive and excel in the cruel society they will face in the future.
Don’t just use the excuse of being from China as a defence of your BS. Show us the evidences and state your points clearly and logically to convince people.
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-10 23:17
成日都淨係識得叫人哋俾 evidence 你，我又唔見你會掉返轉頭儸啲 evidence 出來話政府無做啲咁嘅事？
多鳩餘...收嗲啦你～
-力
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-10 23:20
成日都淨係識得叫人哋俾 evidence 你，我又唔見你會掉返轉頭儸啲 evidence 出來話政府無做啲咁嘅事？
多鳩 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-10 23:17
If you cannot show the evidences, then don't made bold statements and call them the facts.
If you said it is only your personal opinion, then I won't challenge you.
作者: maldini 時間: 2010-7-11 00:15
本帖最後由 maldini 於 2010-7-11 00:16 編輯
This is strange.
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-11 07:37
What is the mission of general school? Isn’t it to teach children the knowledge and skills they need to be able to develop their career and future? Language skills are essentially crucial to their career development. Can I ask how good is your Mandarin? Do you have Cantonese accent? Have you ever encountered difficulty in finding a job because of your language deficiency?
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-10 23:07
你話香港母語教學
用廣東話 定係用普通話？
文字又秦始皇統一
語言由共產黨統一
三呼萬歲 共始皇萬歲
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-11 07:43
Cantonese is a dialect and the main mission for general school is not to protect a local dialect. To protect it should be the mission of other specialized organizations. General school is to give children the skills to survive and excel in the cruel society they will face in the future.
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-10 23:20
why can you think things in opposite way?
When you want to survive in a society that speaks Cantonese, even your mandarine is good you have to learn Cantonese in order to survive.
Same to us that we try to speak good Mandarine here in order to entertain our Mainland brothers.
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 08:48
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-11 09:11 編輯
When you want to survive in a society that speaks Cantonese, even your mandarine is good you have to learn Cantonese in order to survive.
Same to us that we try to speak good Mandarine here in order to entertain our Mainland brothers....
sheep 發表於 2010-7-11 07:43
You actually got the critical point – if Cantonese is vital for children to the survival and success in society, Cantonese will be an important skill that school should teach and will teach.
Young people in Taiwan are losing their 閩南話, will you say the Taiwanese government purposely tries to eliminate 閩南話?
A few of my friends who are CBC can actually speak fluent Cantonese. Couple of them are fluent in both Cantonese and Mandarin and they can also read and write in Chinese. How can they achieve that? It is because they and their parents believe those language skills are important for their future success.
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 08:50
你話香港母語教學
用廣東話 定係用普通話？
文字又秦始皇統一
語言由共產黨統一
三呼萬歲 共始皇萬歲 ...
sheep 發表於 2010-7-11 07:37
Why don't you complain Taiwan only teach in mandarin and Canada only teach in English or French in general public school?
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-11 08:59
You actually got the critical point – if Cantonese is vital for children to the survival and succ ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-11 08:48
你都識講啦
你要去第二道搵食 就要適應嗰道嘅形勢
唔通你叫個廣東人 同啲米講普通話
話啲米會快啲長？
要用 就自然去學㗎啦
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-11 09:05
回復 45# rockypath
點解你唔問吓啲中國人響呢度
要啲仔女學英語 同法語重好喇
響西方社會 就要用英語
原住民要響大城市搵食 一樣要英語
咁顯淺嘅邏輯道理 你都唔明
番屋企問吓你雙親
你細個時 讀乜？
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 09:08
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-11 09:10 編輯
你都識講啦
你要去第二道搵食 就要適應嗰道嘅形勢
唔通你叫個廣東人 同啲米講普通話
話啲米會快啲長？
要 ...
sheep 發表於 2010-7-11 08:59
what is the main 搵食 language in China or the great China region (mainland, Hong Kong and Taiwan)? Isn't it mandarin?
Just mention Hong Kong, don't you discover mandarin is becoming more and more important in job environment?
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-11 09:37
what is the main 搵食 language in China or the great China region (mainland, Hong Kong and Taiwan) ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-11 09:08
以你呢啲線性思維
咁 中國唔使同世界接軌
係世界同中國接軌啦
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 10:31
以你呢啲線性思維
咁 中國唔使同世界接軌
係世界同中國接軌啦
sheep 發表於 2010-7-11 09:37
Just state your points clearly to counter if you believe you have points.
Of course China wants to be connected with the world and that is why the school focus on teaching mandarin and English but not local dialects.
作者: kingkong123 時間: 2010-7-11 11:19
You actually got the critical point – if Cantonese is vital for children to the survival and succ ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-11 08:48
台湾没禁止在学校将闽南话嘛，白痴仔
广东有白痴政协要求禁播广东话电视，和禁止在学校讲广东话，甘米证据咯
你要杀人使唔使杀死人先叫谋杀啊，谋杀不随都算谋杀啦，傻仔。画公仔使唔使画出肠啊
作者: kingkong123 時間: 2010-7-11 11:30
本帖最後由 kingkong123 於 2010-7-11 11:32 編輯
Why don't you complain Taiwan only teach in mandarin and Canada only teach in English or French in ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-11 08:50
没人有异议用国语教学唔可以，但是禁讲广东话就唔同，这个系两回事
你在加拿大没可能在学校禁将法文，减少或打压法语电视台
一句话就捅穿你的歪理啦，细佬，写才长篇大论没用的，要hit 到point啊 傻仔
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 11:45
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-11 12:07 編輯
广东有白痴政协要求禁播广东话电视，和禁止在学校讲广东话，甘米证 ...
kingkong123 發表於 2010-7-11 11:19
You had said he is 白痴. There are always 白痴 politicians. It is only you who would be surprised by this. Which country does not have 白痴 politicians and stupid policies. Tell us.
That is your evidence of the Chinese government purposely eliminate Cantonese? How stupid.
Most of schools cross China where mandarin is not their daily speaking language directly or indirectly encourage students to speak mandarin only when they are in school for the purpose of helping the students to practice their mandarin. Don't tell us you don't know about this. Don't contiue to BS and 顛倒黑白 here.
I don’t know when mandarin became the standard teaching language but it would be at least 30 years as I know and I won't be surprised if it began from 50's. It is an important and effective policy for the country both economically and politically.
I am actually curious. The Chinese government had admitted their failure in their attempt to reform the education system. Why didn’t you realize that would be a much more strong and powerful area for you to bash the Chinese government convincingly?
There are many problems with the Chinese education systems, why don’t you bash on that instead of on this small incidence?
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 12:16
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-11 12:18 編輯
没人有异议用国语教学唔可以，但是禁讲广东话就唔同，这个系两回事...
kingkong123 發表於 2010-7-11 11:30
You can accuse the school overdo with their “encouragement” of speaking mandarin only in school. But you try to make people to believe it is a government policy to eliminate Cantonese.
Will you expect people to believe in your BS? Only you would fool yourself to be believing in this.
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-11 12:32
上海已經有板你睇，但廣東嘅南蠻子卻無上海嘅人咁容易同願意去做個百份百嘅順民。
當連政協都要求禁播廣東話電視節目嘅時候，你條契弟都依然選擇去視而不見，除咗「賤」同「狗」之外，我實在諗唔到仲可以點形容你。
-力
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 12:36
當連政協都要求禁播廣東話電視節目嘅時候，你條契弟都依然選擇去視而不見，除咗「賤」同「狗」之外，我實在諗唔到仲可以點形容你。...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-11 12:32
That is a suggestion from an idiot politician. Do you have the brain to tell the difference between "suggestion" and "policy"? Idiot?
Use your brain. Idiot.
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 12:43
上海已經有板你睇，但廣東嘅南蠻子卻無上海嘅人咁容易同願意去做個百份百嘅順民。
當連政協都要求禁播廣東 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-11 12:32
台灣有板你睇，又唔見你出聲？
Some schools overdo their "encouragement". Can you use that to accuse it is government policy? 癲狗就是癲狗。見骨就咬，見屎就食。
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-11 13:14
回復 57# rockypath
你正正就係唔見棺材 唔流眼淚嘅人
你又蠢唔晒
話你知 山埃係毒 你要有人食咗 死咗 先信
不過 你唔會自己求証去試 係叫人去試
但係又唔信人哋啲結論
你咪一世活再自己嘅黑洞裡面
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 13:18
回復 rockypath
你正正就係唔見棺材 唔流眼淚嘅人
你又蠢唔晒
話你知 山埃係毒 你要有人食咗 死咗 ...
sheep 發表於 2010-7-11 13:14
If you want to speak in a human way, then state your points clearly and logically.
If you believe there is 棺材 waiting for you, sure to enjoy it yourselves and don't expect other people would agree with you when you had shown no creditability of what you said what so ever.
作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-7-11 13:20
唔好意思，所有學校，都係黨辦既學校。
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-11 13:25
回復 59# rockypath
你好嬲咩
講中你哩
作者: peter236 時間: 2010-7-11 14:14
上海已經有板你睇，但廣東嘅南蠻子卻無上海嘅人咁容易同願意去做個百份百嘅順民。
當連政協都要求禁播廣東 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-11 12:32
You moron, when I visited Shanghai, everyone was speaking Shanghainese.
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-11 14:39
You moron, when I visited Shanghai, everyone was speaking Shanghainese.
peter236 發表於 2010-7-11 14:14
You forgot to ask Lik whether he has ever been to Shanghai at all.
作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-7-12 03:47
講多無謂，去片!！
[youtube]Emib72RH-CI[/youtube]
作者: news 時間: 2010-7-12 10:46
its right for the school to enforce mandarin in class...its wrong to force students to speak mandarin when not in class and have peers to rat out the ones that speak cantonese when you live in a province that speaks cantonese
作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-12 11:11
本帖最後由 samsung 於 2010-7-12 11:12 編輯
講多無謂，去片!！
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-7-12 03:47
well said the host... Cantonese should be parallel with Mandarin... so I always against Taiwan's way back in Ar Bien's time, pushing 閩南語 so hard to let their ppl lost Mandarin, their motive is terrible
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-12 11:52
its right for the school to enforce mandarin in class...its wrong to force students to speak mandari ...
news 發表於 2010-7-12 10:46
We should have the ability to understand their purpose of encouraging (or "enforce") student to speak mandarin when they are at school, and also criticize the way they enforce it. But it is stupid to make it a conspiracy.
It is not just in Canton, schools in other provinces and regions have been doing the similar thing as well for years. Will you agree with what Lik and King Kong said that the government purposely tries to eliminate all languages in China but mandarin?
作者: news 時間: 2010-7-12 13:43
回復 67# rockypath
yes thts true and tht wht i think or i perceive from the article he posted
but regarding the law and stuff...like u said..its a consipiracy..so how will just read it or discuss it like it is...it may be true or it may not...who knows...since u know how open china is sometimes on a lot of stuff...but the public image the mainland created over the past from a "foreigner" point of view certainly didnt help it
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-12 14:13
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-12 14:16 編輯
回復 rockypath
but regarding the law and stuff...like u said..its a consipiracy..so how will just read it or discuss it like it is...it may be true or it may not...who knows...since u know how open china is sometimes on a lot of stuff...but the public image the mainland created over the past from a "foreigner" point of view certainly didnt help it ...
news 發表於 2010-7-12 13:43
Conspiracies would be more acceptive to people who do not have the knowledge of the situation or someone has a twisted mind like Lik who only accepts things and information that fit his own biases.
Lik took Shanghai as an example. But he does not have the gut to tell us whether he has been to Shanghai and how many schools force students to speak mandarin. He might feel sorry to discover that some schools actually begin to encourage students to speak English.
Now, should we have another conspiracy – the Chinese government is trying to sell the country off to western world?
Lik just cannot realize how stupid he is.
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-12 14:32
本帖最後由 Lik 於 2010-7-12 14:36 編輯
LOL~
唔該你去上海走一轉，睇吓啲年輕嘅一輩有幾多人能操得一口流利又正中嘅上海話先返來同我講野啦～遺禍呢家野，咁快就即刻可以俾你睇得見 lu喎～
中國要幾多個少朋友唔識講用自己地方嘅語言來同自己嘅爺爺嫲嫲傾計先至識後悔？
-力
作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-12 14:46
LOL~
唔該你去上海走一轉，睇吓啲年輕嘅一輩有幾多人能操得一口流利又正中嘅上海話先返來同我講野啦～遺禍 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-12 14:32
no worries, their grandparents will be gone very soon and they will definitely be able to communicate with their own grandchildren as very soon everyone will speak only Mandarin, Shanghaiese is only for appreciation (found in certain museum), not for communication 
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-12 16:01
嘩～你呢啲叫做人性呀？你知唔知道咩叫做文化？咩叫做 heritage？!
唔好同我扮嬉皮笑臉來甩身呀！
-力
作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-12 16:56
嘩～你呢啲叫做人性呀？你知唔知道咩叫做文化？咩叫做 heritage？!
唔好同我扮嬉皮笑臉來甩身呀！
-力 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-12 16:01
like this?
作者: peter236 時間: 2010-7-12 17:04
本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-7-12 17:10 編輯
嘩～你呢啲叫做人性呀？你知唔知道咩叫做文化？咩叫做 heritage？!
唔好同我扮嬉皮笑臉來甩身呀！
-力 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-12 16:01
You moron, people such as long hair and mad dog wong yuk man, have foul mouth, throw banana, hahaha.
作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-7-12 17:50
我仲以為所有小學都唔比講粵語tim... 
呢d 係學校既政策, 正如我屋企附近既一所幼稚園都係用全英語教學. 如果個家長buy, 咁就當然係一個賣點啦~
如果d 家長唔like 呢學校唔比用粵語, 係唔係可以轉校架? 定係共產黨唔會比佢地轉校, 一想轉校就捉哂成家人去勞改? 咁就關共產黨事law...
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-12 21:58
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-12 22:08 編輯
LOL~
唔該你去上海走一轉，睇吓啲年輕嘅一輩有幾多人能操得一口流利又正中嘅上海話先返來同我講野啦～遺禍 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-12 14:32
Lik, just wondering when will you stop embarrassing yourself?
First, I believe I am more familiar with Shanghai and have met many more both local and overseas Shanghainese than you do. If you want to use Shanghai as an example, please give concrete information and examples instead of BS.
Second, I will tell you what the situation is in Shanghai and Guangzhou. Shangahai and Guangzhou have been the most developed and advanced cities in China. People living in Shanghai and Guangzhou feel being superiors than people from other places. Therefore, they are proud of their own dialects and will speak Shanghaiese or Cantonese only under any situation that is possible and their mandarin is not as good as their own dialects. Moreover, they are, in fact, proud of their imperfect mandarin.
Now, Shanghai and Guangzhou become a more open city and more non-local and overseas people have moved in and the non-local people begin to take the leading roles in many areas. Mandarin has gradually replaced the local dialects to become the first language in all areas.
Don’t blame the school and CCP. It is the evolvement of the society brings the changes.
If you don’t trust what I said, you can ask your brother King Kong to verify it.
作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-7-12 22:31
LOL~
唔該你去上海走一轉，睇吓啲年輕嘅一輩有幾多人能操得一口流利又正中嘅上海話先返來同我講野啦～遺禍呢家野，咁快就即刻可以俾你睇得見 lu喎～
中國要幾多個少朋友唔識講用自己地方嘅語言來同自己嘅爺爺嫲嫲傾計先至識後悔？
-力
Lik 發表於 2010-7-13 06:32
假若你既爺爺嫲嫲除左某一種語言之外係唔識其他既語言, 如果你真係想同佢地溝通, 就算係學校冇教既, 你都會o係日常生活中學得到. 如果你日常生活中同爺爺嫲嫲相處既時候都學唔識, 我相信你同爺爺嫲嫲既關係好極有限.
講到尾, 學校雖然係傳授知識既地方, 但大家都唔好expect 學校能教識你所有東西. 從小弟多年既學習經驗, 自己o係學校外學既野係比o係校內學既野多好多.
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-12 22:44
You think I am not aware of most of the things you've just said? However, you are incorrect on certain accounts.
An even better example of Mandarin taking over local dialects is Shenzhen. With industrialization and the vast volumes of both migrant workers and non-local people, Mandarin has by far taken over as the dominant language in Shenzhen even though it is located right next to the last two Cantonese strongholds (HK and GZ). At a lot of places in Shenzhen, you won't even be understood anymore if you only speak Cantonese.
The problems that I have repeatedly outlined is the fact that:
1) authorities are using dirty tactics to undermine the local languages and dialects
2) because of #1, youngsters are becoming unable to speak their local and native language. This is especially true in Shanghai, and is also where you have so conveniently neglected to mention.
BC is primarily an English-speaking province. But do you see the provincial or federal government imposing the rule that no one can speak languages other than English when they are at school or even at work?! or even during the break time and things? Society flourishes not because of active government intervention attempts at river crabbing everybody; it flourishes because it is a mosaic of different ideas interacting with each other and improving upon one another. Mandarin, Shanghaiese, Cantonese, Hakka, etc. are all rich in their own way. As a Cantonese speaker, I will also tell you that Cantonese is superior to Mandarin in many different ways while simultaneously being inferior in others. For authorities to stick its hands in and intervene is WRONG!
80% of the GZ people are against the move eliminate Cantonese from television programs, but certain government bodies and officials think they know better. Haven't we seen all this before again and again?
-Lik
作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-7-12 23:16
BC is primarily an English-speaking province. But do you see the provincial or federal government imposing the rule that no one can speak languages other than English when they are at school or even at work?! or even during the break time and things?
Lik 發表於 2010-7-13 14:44
睇到人都癲... 中共有冇imposing the rule that no one can speak languages other than 普通話? 我覺得呢個擺到明係學校既政策啦. Under 呢個政策, d 家長如果覺得唔like, 就唔好報讀law, 如果你想小朋友學好普通話, 咁就比佢讀law. 我睇黎睇去都唔覺得有乜野問題... 
真係唔明點解咁都可以扯到去中共頭上... 真係 - 無話可說. 
作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-7-12 23:26
本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2010-7-12 23:51 編輯
回復 78# Lik
First, I also support to protect local dialects which are important parts of Chinese cultures. What I don’t agree with is your political conspiracy.
Second, do you mind to share your thoughts with us? Let’s say we are now in 1950 the time CCP just took over China and people in different regions of China only speak their own dialects and majority of them cannot communicate with people from other places. If you are the national education minister, what will you do? Will you make mandarin the standard language to be taught in schools or encourage all regions to continue teaching local dialects?
I give you a real life example. One time, one of our colleagues took a long distance bus in China. Two people from the same province sitting beside him kept talking to each other in mandarin. He was curious and asked them why they would speak mandarin to each other instead of their own dialect. They told him that they are from different parts of the province and the dialects are different. Therefore, mandarin is the only language they can communicate with each other.
Does this real life example give you any inspiration?
作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-7-12 23:34
回復 80# rockypath
而家力兄好明顯就擺到明借題抽插有人(正確d 係有黨)禁止學生學習本地方言.
唔知我有冇分析錯誤呢?
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-13 00:08
真係唔明點解咁都可以扯到去中共頭上... 真係 - 無話可說
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-7-12 23:16
老友，你唔識野最少都聽吓書、用吓腦啦～ 全國政協係唔係老共嘅人呀？做得校長嘅，點都同黨有啲關係呀？
Second, do you mind to share your thoughts with us? Let’s say we are now in 1950 the time CCP just took over China and people in different regions of China only speak their own dialects and majority of them cannot communicate with people from other places. If you are the national education minister, what will you do? Will you make mandarin the standard language to be taught in schools or encourage all regions to continue teaching local dialects?
I give you a real life example. One time, one of our colleagues took a long distance bus in China. Two people from the same province sitting beside him kept talking to each other in mandarin. He was curious and asked them why they would speak mandarin to each other instead of their own dialect. They told them him that they are from different parts of the province and the dialects are different. Therefore, mandarin is the only language they can communicate with each other.
Does this real life example give you an inspiration?
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-12 23:26
Knowing what I know now, if I were the national education minister, the first thing I'd do is to keep a close eye on Murderer Mao...
Your example is meaningless, because there can be any number of sensible routes:
1) pick a most common language and adopt that as the official language -- this is what China has done
2) pick two or more common languages and use that as the official language -- this is what Canada and Hong Kong has done
3) pick multiple languages as the official language and just live with it -- this is what many European countries have done
Note that choice number 1 is not always ideal. Canada, Hong Kong, and Euope are all running perfectly fine with multiple languages as the official languages. Of course, with the typical 中國大一統 mindset, nothing other than #1 would be satisfactory for the Great Leaders~
If you really support the preservation of local dialects, you wouldn't have said all the crap that you said in this thread.
-Lik
作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-7-13 00:22
老友，你唔識野最少都聽吓書、用吓腦啦～ 全國政協係唔係老共嘅人呀？做得校長嘅，點都同黨有啲關係呀？
...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-13 16:08
你都幾用腦架woh, 可惜用腦過度, 諗親大陸野都鑽牛角尖.
人地校長係全國政協, 咁就要做d 野討好共產黨? 你呢個諗法都幾China 既, 我又唔可以完全否定你, 但係就會覺得會唔會係以小人之心, 度君子之腹.
你可唔可以試下諗一諗, 呢一個只係學校既政策呢? 呢間學校推普通話, 要d 學生要用普通話溝通, 有乜問題呢? 我當年讀HKU, 都有English Speaking Zone, o係個大堂入面discussion 都要用英文, 唔可以講廣東話, 唔通比香港政府打壓咩?... 救命, 我真係唔想講喇, 我道行唔夠高, 說服唔到你的, 無謂自尋煩惱.
作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-13 00:47
no worries, the new age ye ye ma ma speaks a few languages, the old ye ye ma ma is going to die soon
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-13 01:26
你都幾用腦架woh, 可惜用腦過度, 諗親大陸野都鑽牛角尖.
人地校長係全國政協, 咁就要做d 野討好共產黨? ...
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-7-13 00:22
大佬，你唔知頭唔知路我真係唔該你睇吓新聞，睇吓件全國政協提議咗啲乜野先好返來同我哋講啦...
亂Q咁插嘴，但又對到錯晒...
-力
作者: peter236 時間: 2010-7-13 01:39
大佬，你唔知頭唔知路我真係唔該你睇吓新聞，睇吓件全國政協提議咗啲乜野先好返來同我哋講啦...
亂Q咁插 ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-13 01:26
You moron, you should update your knowledge of China, instead of bashing indiscriminately.
作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-7-13 02:46
低鳩能mJJ同土共打手唔該睇呢段野。
日前，广州市政协纪可光提议，把广州电视台综合频道或新闻频道改用普通话播出。一石激起千层浪，这一提议立马在民间引起很大热议，除了在粤语圈内形成强烈的反对，部分外省人也觉得该提议过犹不及。
历来，在广东地坊间就自动形成了一场粤语保卫战。上个月，一份广东电视台改用普通话的网上调查，就已经在网上引起了极大争议，最后调查结果显示，赞同普语的约20%，赞同粤语的约80%。如今，纪可光一份提议使得这场“保卫战”越演越烈。
今日，香港电台第一条新闻《环看天下》也表示，谁取消粤语，谁就是千古罪人。
纪可光的提议主要是为了，“广州要通过卫星走出去，必须使用普通话。”这一提议是为了服务更多外地人，也为了更好地推广广州，但记者采访了一些外地人，他们也表示这一提议没必要。
张洁是河北人，虽然只能听懂几句粤语，但是她也不赞成换成普通话，“都说普通话显得很没特色，但是粤语节目最好配上字幕，以方便外地人。”张洁从小就听别人说广东和香港，因而也对粤语十分好奇。“粤语是我国知名度最高的方言，比较特殊，其它地方台改成方言我未必能接受，但是广东的电视讲粤语，我觉得十分必须，这方便我们学粤语。”
“其实这个问题好矛盾，如果换成普通话，那么多年来的文化积淀就会慢慢消失，如果不换，又会让人觉得很排外。”啊国老家在广西梧州，毗邻广东，当地方言与粤语相差不大，当地居民也会收看广东的粤语节目。“从我个人感情层面来说，我当然是觉得不应该换。再换成市场角度来说，中国电视台众多，就算改成普通话也未必能在市场上取胜。保留粤语，反而能在一些特色上取胜。”
香港著名编剧萧若元在微博上表示，粤语有保留价值，原因有三：一，它与客家话及闽南语，是最接近古汉语的中国方言；二，粤语的音韵，能念出古文、古诗的神韵，北京话反为不能；三，粤语的生命力顽强，对外来语有甚高的包容性。
作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-7-13 02:57
羊城晚报
本报东莞讯 记者黄玲摄影报道：进校见到校长，用广东白话说了句“早晨（早上好）”，东莞虎门中心小学一名老师自觉地向年级长交纳了10元的学习费，用于该校推广普通话（简称“推普”）的活动经费。本学期开始，虎门中心小学发出倡议，要求老师在校期间特别是上课时间全部使用普通话，无意“犯规”者需要交纳学习费。据悉，该校老师言行还受到学生的监督，哪怕只讲一句方言都会被小班长记录在班务日志上。
虎门中心小学是该镇公办学校，有38个班级。2008年，该镇申报东莞市语言文字规范化示范学校。昨天上午，记者来到虎门中心小学，只见进门处墙上写着“我是中国娃，爱说普通话”几个大字,而在各栋大楼的拐角地方，“请讲普通话”几个大字十分醒目。
为了营造普通话校园，该校新学期开始作出规定：全校老师在校内一律使用普通话，尤其是上课和开会期间。“10元钱不是罚款，只是交纳的学习费，用于学校推普的活动经费”，教导处副主任黄女士说，现在老师进门打招呼都是用普通话，效果很好。据悉，老师下班后可以使用白话。此外，在和本地家长沟通时，也可以根据情况使用。上周开始，中心小学的小班长们记录的班务日志上有了一项新的内容，老师上课哪怕只讲一句白话，都要被记录下来。
作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-7-13 02:57
新快报讯 （记者 王海波）学生在校园内只能讲普通话，不许讲方言？番禺区某小学就是这样要求学生的。
对此，番禺区教育局昨日表示，学校在大力推广普通话的前提下应允许学生在课余讲粤语，多会一种方言是好事，对学生们将来的工作和生活都有好处。
来穗四年孩子不会讲粤语
小明6岁时随父母来广州生活，父母在番禺区大石街某小区购房后，小明就在小区附近的学校上小学。学校为了推广普通话，要求学生尽可能地多讲普通话，不许在校园内讲方言。为此，该学校甚至还专门让班干部监督大家，发现谁在操场、走廊等地方讲了方言，就向老师汇报，然后扣学生的考核分数，到年底评三好学生、评先进分子时，这些情况就会派上用场。
由于随时随地都有班干部监督，学生们只得乖乖听话，再也不敢在学校内讲方言。另外，放学后孩子们各自回家，互相交流的机会并不多。因此，小明回家后与父母不是讲内地老家的方言，就是讲普通话。小明虽然来广州4年了，但对粤语还是一窍不通。
部分家长认为禁方言欠妥
小明的父母告诉记者，他们以前来广州找工作时，因为不会粤语而错过了不少工作机会。如今虽然找到工作，但语言问题仍然不时影响工作。总之，如果不会粤语，即使在广州生活时间再久，仍觉得自己是外乡人。他们不希望自己的过去在孩子身上重演，所以希望孩子能及早说一口流利的粤语。
据悉，像小明父母这样的“新客家人”大多有类似的想法，所以他们觉得学校不许孩子们在课余讲方言的做法欠妥。他们希望学校既提倡孩子们在公共场所讲普通话，又鼓励孩子们在课余讲方言，这样可以互相学习对方的方言。
无硬性规定校内禁讲方言
该校一位不愿透露姓名的老师告诉记者，让学生在校园内尽可能地多讲普通话主要是为了营造良好的语言氛围，给学生们创造更多的机会学习普通话。根据语言规律，要掌握一门语言，光靠课堂上的一点时间是不够的，必须在日常交流中大量使用，所以学校要求学生在校内多讲普通话的做法无可厚非。还有，小学生正在学习、巩固汉语拼音，多讲普通话也有利于提高语文水平，而多讲方言则会削弱学习效果。
记者随后采访了番禺区教育局。该局有关人士表示，教育部门没有明文规定学生在校园一定不许讲方言，只是提倡大力推广普通话，要求在课堂、在公共场合讲普通话。该人士也同意部分家长的意见，认为孩子们多学一种方言肯定是好事，有助于他们将来的就业和生活。
作者: Davidcopperfeel 時間: 2010-7-13 05:18
廣州人's cantonese have so much accent too. Not a matter if their schools let their students to speak cantonese in school or not.
作者: Davidcopperfeel 時間: 2010-7-13 05:24
新快报讯 （记者 王海波）学生在校园内只能讲普通话，不许讲方言？番禺区某小学就是这样要求学生的。
...
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-7-13 02:57
Hey dude you mind translate these 簡體字 to 繁體 is hard for some ppl who can't read 大陸字 lol
作者: Davidcopperfeel 時間: 2010-7-13 05:28
You moron, you should update your knowledge of China, instead of bashing indiscriminately.
peter236 發表於 2010-7-13 01:39
Agree 100% Lik came from mainland china thats why he thinks he knows alot about china and i think he does cause he's one of those 大陸仔
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-13 07:12
I give you a real life example. One time, one of our colleagues took a long distance bus in China. Two people from the same province sitting beside him kept talking to each other in mandarin. He was curious and asked them why they would speak mandarin to each other instead of their own dialect. They told him that they are from different parts of the province and the dialects are different. Therefore, mandarin is the only language they can communicate with each other.
rockypath 發表於 2010-7-12 23:26
呢句就正係問題嘅答案
要溝通 就要用言語
你唔可以為咗統一言語而將方言禁止
方言 唔係歷史 係文化
一個民族嘅消失 由文化消失開始
作者: sheep 時間: 2010-7-13 07:18
而家 呢個問題 係由小學 申延到電視
覆蓋面係整個廣州
一定唔會係地方政策 係中央指令
作者: Davidcopperfeel 時間: 2010-7-13 09:21
呢句就正係問題嘅答案
要溝通 就要用言語
你唔可以為咗統一言語而將方言禁止
方言 唔係歷史 係文化
一個民 ...
sheep 發表於 2010-7-13 07:12
Agree
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-13 09:53
香港著名编剧萧若元在微博上表示，粤语有保留价值，原因有三：一，它与客家话及闽南语，是最接近古汉语的中国方言；二，粤语的音韵，能念出古文、古诗的神韵，北京话反为不能；三，粤语的生命力顽强，对外来语有甚高的包容性。
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-7-13 02:46
Mr. Siu's 捍衛粵語、正體字/ 中文字的演化 program:
http://us1.hkreporter.com/files/new/sea_2010-07-08_2_a579.mp3
-Lik
作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-13 09:59
Mr. Siu's 捍衛粵語、正體字/ 中文字的演化 program:
-Lik
Lik 發表於 2010-7-13 09:53
WHAT? "香港著名编剧萧若元"??? HK famous 爛人 萧若元 would be more appropriate to describe this jxxk!!!!!!!!!! 
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-13 10:07
WHAT? "香港著名编剧萧若元"??? HK famous 爛人 萧若元 would be more appropriate to describe this jx ...
samsung 發表於 2010-7-13 09:59
Idiot... do a little homework before shooting your mouth off la~
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/%E8%90%A7%E8%8B%A5%E5%85%83
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作者: samsung 時間: 2010-7-13 10:31
Idiot... do a little homework before shooting your mouth off la~
Lik 發表於 2010-7-13 10:07
so what? 爛人 is still 爛人
ps, what's mean by "shooting your mouth off" ar? I dun un ar
作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-13 12:51
ps, what's mean by "shooting your mouth off" ar? I dun un ar ...
samsung 發表於 2010-7-13 10:31
You know, given how xxxxxx you are, I really wouldn't be surprised if you have no idea what the saying means. And no, it doesn't mean somebody taking a gun to shoot and blow your mouth into smithereens~
-Lik
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