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標題: Eastern China Has Poorest Air Quality in the World [打印本頁]

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-9-28 11:08 標題: Eastern China Has Poorest Air Quality in the World

Canadian scientists have developed a map of global air-particulate pollution using National Aeronautics and Space Administration satellite data, and it shows that China's air quality is very poor compared to the rest of the world.

http://www.dailytech.com/Eastern+China+Has+Poorest+Air+Quality+in+the+World/article19741.htm

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-9-28 12:31

Beware of P ..

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 18:15

It's lucky the sea is nearby, otherwise the air pollution is even worst for the inland.

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 19:49

they should include the sea if the sea is affected

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 20:00

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-9-28 20:01 編輯

回復 4# tiffiant

Normally wind will blow from the sea towards the land (better air circulation)...

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 20:05

its hard to say, perhaps the wind got affected by pollution

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 20:28

回復 6# tiffiant

Not really.
Heavy polluted particles will drop once precipitation;
Light polluted particles/volitile gas will follow air current.
In normally days wind are strong blowing inland from the sea trapping pollutants on the coastal area.

作者: mibu 時間: 2010-9-28 21:04

yay! horray for china!

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 21:08

回復 tiffiant

Not really.
Heavy polluted particles will drop once precipitation;
Light polluted p ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-28 20:28

so, how is the rain? is it safe that we have preciptiation?

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 21:11

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-9-28 21:18 編輯

回復 9# tiffiant

Precipitation is rain, snow, hail... etc.
That's why everytime after rain you feel the air is fresher...
For any pollutants that're heavier than air by density, they will go nowhere but falling down eventually. It's just a matter in time...
For heavily polluted air, eg. industrial area, you may always heard of the term "acid rain", it is harmful.
However, the condition is well depends on the weather. Since precipitation is a pretty well buffer system, water falls on the ground is usually "neutral", so to speak.

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 21:15

Heavy polluted particles = precipitation
so, should we touch the rain/precipitation?

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 21:21

Heavy polluted particles = precipitation
so, should we touch the rain/precipitation?
tiffiant 發表於 2010-9-28 21:15

Heavy polluted particles "DOES NOT" = precipitation.
It should be the precipitation "washed out" those heavy polluted particles just like you are cleaning out dirt with water...

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 21:30

therefore, water can clean everything dirty

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 21:34

回復 13# tiffiant

Mostly, water is a very good solvent/media...

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 21:37

回復 tiffiant

Mostly, water is a very good solvent/media...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-28 21:34

without water, what would effect us?

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 21:38

回復 15# tiffiant

Don't quite get what you are really asking? Can you make it clear?

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 21:39

without the source of water
what would happen to our weather?

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-28 21:42

回復 17# tiffiant

Look at Mars... Once upon a time there is water...

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-28 21:45

回復 tiffiant

Look at Mars... Once upon a time there is water...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-28 21:42

i believe water is getting less in earth right?

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-9-28 21:46

回復 18# lo_pak

And the back of the moon too

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-28 22:24

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作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-28 22:25

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作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-28 22:26

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作者: myversa 時間: 2010-9-29 06:11

I went to Taiwan, Shanghai and Hong Kong but I found Hong Kong has the worse of all because I got sick 10 minutes after I checked in Hong Kong hotel.

作者: rockypath 時間: 2010-9-29 07:56

回復 24# myversa

Guangzhou is much worse than Hong Kong in my opinion. The air polluted by motorcycle made me suffocated.

作者: myversa 時間: 2010-9-29 08:00

回復 myversa

Guangzhou is much worse than Hong Kong in my opinion. The air polluted by motorcycle ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-9-29 07:56

Maybe because I have never been there. I would love to travel more China cities.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 10:58

Air pollution is one big problem associated with modernized cities. Motor vehicles, power plants, air conditions,... etc. All burning fossil fuels that emit heat, carbon dioxide plus other different pollutants.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-9-29 11:05

The biggest polluters in GZ and the nearby areas are the factories. Locally (in GZ), the constant construction and demolition also makes for some really poor air quality.

And our moron Peter keep insisting that all these constructions are good... When will his stupid "Build, baby, Build" mentality grow up?

-Lik

作者: 匿名 時間: 2010-9-29 11:17

for a moment I thought you referred to quality of "Airlines"

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-9-29 11:49

回復 26# myversa

How is the situation in Taiwan compared to Vancouver?
Just curious.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 12:00

回復 30# somewhereintime

You are picky... Don't try to compare the fresh air in Vancovuer with other places...

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-9-29 12:11

回復 31# lo_pak

Hey, I'm a grumpy old man, don't you know that?

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 21:37

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-9-29 21:53 編輯

The biggest polluters in GZ and the nearby areas are the factories. Locally (in GZ), the constant co ...
Lik 發表於 2010-9-29 11:05

You think only western countries are allowed to build and China should not build modern buildings to improve their living standards?
Lik, when are you going to stop going to autocross which wastes gasoline and pollutes the air? Maybe you should stop driving your polluting car to work.

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 21:38

If you look at the map there seems to be a pattern. From the Sahara desert in Africa, to the Middle East, Central Asia and China's western Xinjiang region. Some of the pollutants is due to the sand from the deserts.

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 21:40

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作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 21:42

Air pollution is one big problem associated with modernized cities. Motor vehicles, power plants, ai ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-29 10:58

That is why China is investing big in hydro power, solar power and wind power.
China is investing big in highspeed railways and subways which are reducing the reliance on polluting cars.

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 21:44

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作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 21:46

回復 36# peter236

At the meanwhile I would rather they use more "nuclear" because of the scale...
Those hydro, wind, solar cannot "satisfy" the consumption gap in a short run...

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 21:54

回復 peter236

At the meanwhile I would rather they use more "nuclear" because of the scale...
Tho ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-29 21:46

yeah, they do invest a lot in nuclear power.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 21:58

回復 34# peter236

What are the causes to dessertification?

1) Climate change - can't fix;
2) Water resources misuse - mostly due to human activities, people are "squeezing" the natural resource out from the environment without repaying...

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 22:06

If you look at the map there seems to be a pattern. From the Sahara desert in Africa, to the Middle East, Central Asia and China's western Xinjiang region. Some of the pollutants is due to the sand from the deserts.
peter236 發表於 2010-9-30 13:38

If so, how come desert in central of Australia does not make it a polluted region?

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-9-29 22:07

You think only western countries are allowed to build and China should not build modern buildings to improve their living standards?
Lik, when are you going to stop going to autocross which wastes gasoline and pollutes the air? Maybe you should stop driving you polluting car to work.
peter236 發表於 2010-9-29 21:37

Moron,

Of course China has as much right as every other country to build and develop as well. But given today's environment conditions, they need to do it in a civil and environmentally friendly manner. Currently, China is one of the biggest polluters in the world, although their per capita pollution rating is still low. But that is only because of the huge number of rural population that skews the per capita number way down. If you only take the urban cities into consideration, I bet China's pollution numbers are far worse than any of western country.

My auto racing excursions hardly amounts to anything at all, as my vehicle is in good repair, and passes Air Care in flying colours. Plus, racing in a controlled environment is the perfect way to hone a driver's driving skills. As a means of driver training, it actively reduces the chances of accidents on the street. If every driver on the road can learn to drive better, including improving their emergency defensive driving skills, do you know how much fewer accidents we will have on the street? Not only will that save you on car insurance, it would also consume significantly less resources from collision repairs. If anything, my racing experience helps to reduce pollution.

Now STFU and keep quiet la. You have no chance trying to argue with me.

-Lik

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 22:11

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-9-29 22:22 編輯

回復 39# peter236

In power generation (in general), 2 important components are confining:

1) Heat source;
2) Water

When you look at the map of China, changing the method of power generation (substituting fossil fuels with hydro, wind, nuclear...) in the eastern part is comparatively easier (just $$). In the western part it's difficult. An easier way to do is to produce the power in the east and run a long way via high voltage powerline to power the west, but again, it's $$$$...

When more people are dying because of the pollution, people will know the $$$ they save from power generation actually pay off in a different form...

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-9-29 22:21

If you look at the map there seems to be a pattern. From the Sahara desert in Africa, to the Middle East, Central Asia and China's western Xinjiang region. Some of the pollutants is due to the sand from the deserts.
peter236 發表於 2010-9-29 21:38

仲枉你夠膽講沙漠帶來嘅污染...知唔知北京點解成日都有沙漠暴呀？

That is why China is investing big in hydro power, solar power and wind power.
China is investing big in highspeed railways and subways which are reducing the reliance on polluting cars.
peter236 發表於 2010-9-29 21:42

And yet China continues to rely on coal as its primary source of power generation. Even Wen Jaibao has made it perfectly clear in Copenhagen that China would not shift its focus away from using coal as the country's primary source of power. And even the 3 Gorges project is nowhere nearly as effective as the government has originally claimed.

For all the mass transit work that China has done, China is still the fastest growing car market in the world, and it is also the biggest automobile market in the world now.

-Lik

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 22:22

If so, how come desert in central of Australia does not make it a polluted region?
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-9-29 22:06

This part I cannot explain since I am not expert. Could be due to other factors like climate pattern or wind direction. But in Sahara desert, and Saudi Arabia, there is little industries. Still there is a lot of pollutants according to this map.

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 22:26

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-9-29 22:30 編輯

Moron,

Of course China has as much right as every other country to build and develop as well. But ...
Lik 發表於 2010-9-29 22:07

You think you are standing on a moral high ground?
If you don't stop going to autocross or driving to work, then you should STFU. Everyone of us should do our little part in cutting back on the use of gasoline. You are wasting gasoline and polluting the air while racing in your stupid car. You have no excuse here.

In big Chinese cities like Beijing or Shanghai, most people commute by bus or subway. And you people in North America drive your cars like crazy everyday.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 22:28

This part I cannot explain since I am not expert. Could be due to other factors like climate patter ...
peter236 發表於 2010-9-30 14:22

In Saudi Arabia, pollution may be caused by process of oil drilling.
Sahara desert... I really have no clue.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 22:30

In big Chinese cities like Beijing or Shanghai, most people commute by bus or subway. And you people in North America drive your cars like crazy everyday.
peter236 發表於 2010-9-30 14:26

Are you one of the "you people in North America"?...

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 22:31

Are you one of the "you people in North America"?...
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-9-29 22:30

Thank you for using Hong Kong railway.

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 22:33

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作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 22:35

Thank you for using Hong Kong railway.
peter236 發表於 2010-9-30 14:31

... good!!! I have improved from blue collar (build high-speed railway) to white collar this time (use high-speed railway)! What a major upgrade! Cheers!

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 22:35

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作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 22:35

回復 peter236

In power generation (in general), 2 important components are confining:

1) Heat so ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-29 22:11

Actually, one of the things they are doing is transporting by pipes, clean burning natural gas from western Xinjiang region and from Russia, to the big population centers in eastern China.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 22:36

yes he drives Chinese-brought Volvo and he is proud of it.
mukmuk2 發表於 2010-9-30 14:33

唔好話我話, 佢應該都係日日"手查"車返工放工果隻啦...

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 22:38

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作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 22:39

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作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 22:41

I can say you are wrong about this. The traffic in Shanghai and Beijing are worse than here because people drive a lot. Please do not say something you do not know.

If you have not been there, then how can you make stupid comments like this;
if you have been there, do not tell me you did not take taxi;
mukmuk2 發表於 2010-9-30 14:35

The traffic in Shanghai and Beijing are worse than Vancouver should be related to the difference in population of the cities. Both Shanghai and Beijing are crowded everywhere...

FYI, I have been to Beijing 4 years ago. Public transportation system was not as bad as I thought, and I tried to take their MTR and bus. The new line of the MTR impressed me a lot!

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-29 22:49

The traffic in Shanghai and Beijing are worse than Vancouver should be related to the difference in ...
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2010-9-29 22:41

yeah, Shanghai now has 400+ km of subway, probably the most extensive in the world. Beijing subway open a few new lines before the Olympics and also after.

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 23:04

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作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 23:07

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作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 23:08

回復 53# peter236

Natural gas is good. However, it requires a lot of initial investment on building "HUGH" facilities to store them and they can't be big... Supplying by the Russia is a bit of a headache, you can tell by the Europe experience...

BTW, if the technology of utlitizing those "flammable ice" is feasible, that would be another great source. Again, disputes along the offshore area with surrounding nations are problematic...

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 23:08

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作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 23:14

Peter since you are here, a lot of people expect you to reply this thread.
mukmuk2 發表於 2010-9-30 15:04

其實, 我唔係好明點解有大陸人o係香港既商場隨地大便都要Peter 去澄清...

雖然Peter 好明顯係一個Pro-China 既人, 但人地隨地大便都應該唔關佢事law.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-29 23:15

I do not think there is a city in the world that "most" people in that city would take transit or walk.
mukmuk2 發表於 2010-9-30 15:07

Hong Kong.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 23:18

回復 58# peter236

Shanghai track length = 420km
NYC track length = 1,355km

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-29 23:24

回復 45# peter236

The map shown is the distribution of "particulate matter" with length +/- 2.5um, the so-called PM2.5 - the smallest particle size that would trap in our breathing system.

There are different sizes of sand in the desert, probably the one in Sahara and Saudi Arabia are finer than those in Australia...

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-29 23:27

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作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-9-30 00:45

We just like to hear what Peter can say to defend action like this.
mukmuk2 發表於 2010-9-30 15:27

我以為大家想Peter 出黎清理d 大便, 所以就千呼萬喚佢出黎law.
而家Peter 仔擺明唔為呢件事defend, 咁有乜問題? 點解好似非要佢出黎不可咁架? 玩批鬥咩...

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-30 01:23

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-9-30 01:38 編輯

回復 peter236

Shanghai track length = 420km
NYC track length = 1,355km
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-29 23:18

Source: wikipedia
Shanghai route length = 420km
NYC route length = 369km

Shanghai's route length is 420km, but the NYC track length is 1,355km. So the two figures are different things. Track length is always a few times more than route length. Shanghai's track length should still be longer than NYC.

Also:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/shanghai-now-the-worlds-longest-metro.html

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-30 06:11

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作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-30 06:14

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