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標題: China's new military stealth plane [打印本頁]

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-28 23:29 標題: China's new military stealth plane

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-28 23:30

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-12-29 01:32

does it work?like it used to be?

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-29 09:49

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-12-29 09:51 編輯

looks too much like the F-22...?

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-29 10:50

Layout for these prototype stealth planes are very similar these days... Almost all double jets engine that you seen in China aviation fleet are somehow "directly" implanted by other countries' design. J11, Su-35 chinese version, you name it, no surprise...

As long as the stealth property functions properly, no bother...

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-30 01:57

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-30 01:58

This new Chinese stealth plane must have stunned the western powers and the Japanese.

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-30 02:02

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-12-30 02:06 編輯

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-31 18:28

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-12-31 18:35 編輯

作者: 老友四號 時間: 2010-12-31 19:05

請恕老夫眼拙乜咁鬼似美帝国嗰架〝猛禽" 嘅?

係唔係同美帝購買，然後貼上祖国嘅五角星徽號？跟著號稱 MADE IN CHAIN !

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-12-31 19:08

飛左先再講

作者: 老友四號 時間: 2010-12-31 19:24

飛左先再講
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-12-31 19:08

嗱！嗱！嗱！你又喺喥妖言惑眾！唔係嚇你据老夫嘅军事科学常識估計，

祖国呢隻飛机就算由地球飛去火星(俗稱冇雷公咁遠)再飛噃地球都仲得呀。

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-12-31 21:50

有carnard,難隱身啲啵.....

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-1 01:30

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-1 01:46 編輯

有carnard,難隱身啲啵.....
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2010-12-31 21:50

Compared with some other stealth planes, the Chinese J-20 DSI has very good fan-blade masking and also the overall underbelly is much more flat/box-like.
It also has a smaller glass canopy, good for RCS reduction.

hahaha, for the anti-China bashers, what a nice new year present this plane is from the Chinese.

Probably the Chinese supercomputers with Chinese CPU are speeding up the development of Chinese technologies.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-1 01:50

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作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-1-1 04:14

Peter仔，你compare to what Other stealth plane ar

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-1 04:54

Peter仔，你compare to what Other stealth plane ar
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2011-1-1 04:14

If you don't now about stealth planes, then STFU la.

作者: soli 時間: 2011-1-1 12:19

雖然我好希望﹐但我都唔係幾信大陸出都4代戰機﹐大陸D引擎技術還是很落後。
就好似話大陸DF-21D可以射中航空母艦一樣﹐現階段係無乜可能。

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-2 01:09

作者: 老友四號 時間: 2011-1-2 11:06

雖然我好希望﹐但我都唔係幾信大陸出都4代戰機﹐大陸D引擎技術還是很落後。
就好似話大陸DF-21D可以射中航 ...
soli 發表於 2011-1-1 12:19

你錯啦！只要用毛泽东思想武裝一吓个頭腦,就一定可以做到

高呼战旡不胜攻旡不克

再高呼:中国共产党万岁！千万爱国同志齐鼓掌和庂。

谢幕。

作者: soli 時間: 2011-1-2 11:59

回復 19# peter236
架機係幾靚仔既﹐不過....
科索沃戰爭時﹐大陸係執左架F-117A黎研究過﹐所以隱身方面應該會有些看頭。

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-3 01:26

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-3 01:29 編輯

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-3 01:58

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-4 13:31

[youtube]uOOHTthSo3E[/youtube]

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-1-4 17:18

真係飛得起的嗎?

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-1-4 18:28

唔會飛。

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-1-4 18:29

唔會飛。
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2011-1-5 10:28

比d 希望阿Peter 仔好wor.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-4 18:30

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作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-1-4 19:15

冇十足把握唔會飛住，呢架野真係好prototype, 又超大架，
由呢架到真係成品可以服役至少要五年(已經計快左）。
其次要搞掂太行量產問題，呢架野要追上F22/T50之流，用太行唔夠。

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-4 19:54

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-4 20:10 編輯

The plane may have already flown.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-4 19:56

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-4 20:07 編輯

They may have already flown this plane. Notice that this plane is already fully painted, with the Chinese military logo on the tail.
According to the experts, all the previous test and prototype Chinese planes, they always put some primer paint instead of these fully finished paint and with no logo on the plane.

This may mean that the plane has already been trial tested and updated. These latest pictures may be the final product of the real plane.
If that is the case, then it is a good New Year present for all the anti-Chinese bashers.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-1-4 20:10

They may have already flown this plane. Notice that this plane is already fully painted, with the Ch ...
peter236 發表於 2011-1-5 11:56

其實造一架飛得起又似隱形戰機既飛機類物體應該唔算太難.
有specification 先講啦.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-4 20:10

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-1-4 20:11

邊個漏D相出黎？？？
告撚硬啵！

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-4 20:13

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-4 20:16 編輯

其實造一架飛得起又似隱形戰機既飛機類物體應該唔算太難.
有specification 先講啦. ...
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2011-1-4 20:10

The Chinese will not tell you the specification, until they have a few squadrons in service, just like the J-10 in the past. But all the necessary radars, avionics and missile weapons systems are already being tested on the newest J-10B.

作者: sheep 時間: 2011-1-4 20:13

peter236 發表於 2011-1-4 20:10

洩露國家機密

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-4 20:20

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作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-4 21:36

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作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-4 22:48

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作者: sheep 時間: 2011-1-5 12:55

本帖最後由 sheep 於 2011-1-5 12:56 編輯

peter236 發表於 2011-1-4 20:10

日本朝日新聞今天報道，中國的隱形戰鬥機殲20的試驗機，本月中將開始試飛，最快2017年開始部署。
朝日發自北京的報道指出，加拿大軍事專家平可夫經由工廠有關人士確認這項消息，中國軍方相關人士也向朝日承認完成殲20試驗機並指出，將於本月中開始試飛
應該未飛過

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-1-5 14:16

These pictures will boost the sale of F35 for sure~

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-5 17:02

回復 41# MoiRhapsody

Not just F35, actually it will boost the sale of all 4th gen stealth planes...

For this J20 prototype, I'm more curious about the air combation ability based on the shape and size... I don't except it will be as "stealthier" as the other new designs but it "looks" like it's somewhat better than some current ones....

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-5 17:48

日本朝日新聞今天報道，中國的隱形戰鬥機殲20的試驗機，本月中將開始試飛，最快2017年開始部署。
...
sheep 發表於 2011-1-5 12:55

It is hard to say as it is anyones guess, in particular those Japanese and that Pinkov are not exactly accurate.
These so-called experts claimed that we should not have seen this plane until 2020, and yet we see it in 2010 now.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-5 18:38

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作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-1-5 19:39

回復 42# lo_pak

T50就唔知幾時交貨~
我諗殲20啲隱身會好過F117啲既~
不過唔該整走對鴨翼囉，為左同YF-23唔似而用鴨翼搞到隱唔到就搞笑。

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-6 20:20

[youtube]C8PwaOrYPcA[/youtube]

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-6 20:25

[youtube]R4UQ9PFE1uY[/youtube]

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-6 20:36

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-6 20:47 編輯

Are these new Chinese engines? There are at least two of these planes?

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-6 20:39

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-6 20:42 編輯

4019 has arrived.

The TV crew has arrived.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-6 20:48

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作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-6 20:56

回復 peter236

WS-10/WS-10A (Tai-Hung):

Hybrid of:
US: GE F100
Russia: AL-31FN
fy789 發表於 2011-1-6 20:48

Looks like the new WS-11 engines.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-1-6 21:01

Looks like the new WS-11 engines.
peter236 發表於 2011-1-7 12:56

睇唔出Peter 仔對飛機都咁有研究!

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-6 21:53

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-1-6 22:06 編輯

回復 51# peter236

Come on, what's the power output of WS-11...? You tell me...

WS-11 was equipped on light attack aircraft JL-8...

PLEASE don't assume number bigger is better/newer...

The new engine on J-10 is the WS-10 or the J-10B with WS-10A...

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-6 22:06

回復 52# mcjohnjohn

Me too x 2, he's quite a guy "咁有"研究...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-6 22:20

回復 peter236

Come on, what's the power output of WS-11...? You tell me...

WS-11 was equipped on ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-6 21:53

They will probably use the WS-15 instead.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-6 22:28

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-1-6 22:43 編輯

回復 55# peter236

No idea, even though the WS-10 boosts the service life to be >2,500 hrs while the AL31FN can only last for 1,500 hrs, god knows... But still, I believe they are still better than Indian' ones...

Hopefully those Chinese engines won't like those Chinese Can Food which have expiry date last FOREVER...

Back to the J-20 prototype, the more I watch, the more questions I have... Something isn't right of being a "stealth" plane...

1) If it's a bomber it's too small, whereas if it's a fighter it's a bit too big...
2) Why canard...
3) Tail is over exposed...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-6 22:40

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-6 22:43 編輯

回復 peter236

No idea, even though the WS-10 boosts the service life to be >2,500 hrs while the A ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-6 22:28

The Indians can't even make their own 3rd generation LCA planes.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-6 22:56

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作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-6 22:57

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作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-6 23:01

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-1-6 23:15 編輯

回復 59# fy789

If you are building for ONLY one product, it is...

beside $$, you still need time/experiments/testings, which are also important factors...

Good design needs not to be expensive...

Expensive one may not be the best...

Bad example: Remember the Arjun?? The prototype looks good (if you don't mind the cost), it's a nightmare when it goes for testing (Everything just didn't work)...

Good example: AK47...

The key to success: research & practise!

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-6 23:16

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作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-6 23:35

回復 61# fy789

Experience is more important than funding in this case...

You can tell by the time lag China is behind those top performing countries like the States, Russians, or even the Japs and French.....

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-7 00:27

回復 fy789

Experience is more important than funding in this case...

You can tell by the time la ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-6 23:35

That's not true anymore.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-7 00:29

回復 peter236

No idea, even though the WS-10 boosts the service life to be >2,500 hrs while the A ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-6 22:28

That is why you are not an expert at all. The US and Russian planes have canards as well.
There is probably a series of related models from J16 to J19 being developed now.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-7 01:16

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-1-7 01:22 編輯

回復 64# peter236

Yup, canards seem to be the trend for new combat aircrafts... I just don't know if it works as well on "steath" planes... For the Russian T50 prototype, the canard is almost like a fin that's integrated to the body frame, which is almost un-noticeable... For subsonic short range air combat, canard is useful...

Just based on the shape and size, I really "doubt" the stealthability of this new plane... I really can't tell if it's a real 4th gen plane, it's more like a 3rd gen combat plane + "some" stealth properties (paint in black plus a F22 cockpit

), that is...

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-7 01:19

回復 63# peter236

What a typical "money can do everything" way of thinking... Hope you really understand what engineering means...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-7 02:12

回復 peter236

What a typical "money can do everything" way of thinking... Hope you really underst ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-7 01:19

Chinese engineers now have the expertise and experience.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-7 02:13

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-7 02:15 編輯

回復 peter236

Yup, canards seem to be the trend for new combat aircrafts... I just don't know if ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-7 01:16

Clearly, you are not an expert on this. The Chinese have already modeled the stealthiness in a supercomputer. You just looked at some pictures.

Please search the web for more comments about this plane which is comparable to F22/F35 in stealthiness.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-7 07:50

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作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-1-7 08:23

er........
係呀～～一班 “資深網友”對住一架乜數據資料都冇既模型飛機吹到整體實力高於F22添～～～～

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-7 09:21

回復 69# fy789

Computing can't solve all the problems...

CAD/CAM are just tools, they would advance the speed, check for conflicts, and good in trial and error. But they still cannot substitute ideas... Comparatively, with the aid of CAD/CAM, design works can be done more precise, efficient, and ultimately lower the design cost. I can't see why you are telling they are expensive... It only occupy a portion, not the biggest piece of the pie...

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-7 09:43

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作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-7 11:24

回復 72# fy789

Not so bad for 50M$ on S/W in a 1K man engineering firm if you know how much they earn compare to how much they save...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-10 21:24

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-10 21:25 編輯

The J-20 has just successfully flown in public.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-10 21:31

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作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-1-10 21:42

The J-20 has just successfully flown in public.
peter236 發表於 2011-1-11 13:24

成功著落?

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-10 21:43

成功著落?
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2011-1-10 21:42

Yes ah.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-1-10 21:44

Yes ah.
peter236 發表於 2011-1-11 13:43

有冇順便試射下d 飛彈?

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-10 21:49

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-10 21:52 編輯

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-10 21:53

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作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-10 21:56

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作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-10 22:24

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作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-10 23:03

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-10 23:48

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作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-11 03:22

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-11 03:26 編輯

[youtube]NfPbf3Ob_1M[/youtube]

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-11 08:59

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作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-11 11:55

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-11 12:05 編輯

Some better and clearer pictures.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-11 12:05

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-11 12:29

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作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-11 12:30

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作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-11 13:48

[attach]10659[/attach]

[attach]10658[/attach]

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-11 14:00

lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-11 13:48

Please remove these irrelevant pictures from here.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-1-11 15:43

Don't know much about stealth planes.... but isn't it that the rear engine nozzle doesn't look too stealthy to me?

In terms of the CAD/CAM vs engineer argument. CAD/CAM doesn't replace engineers, Engineers doesn't replace CAD/CAM. Just diff stuff.

But i'd have to say given that CAD/CAM equipment is pretty standard (a few Million for license is nth when we are developing sth like this, regardles of which country/company is doing it, get real), the edge definately comes from experienced and innovative engineering.

I am an engineer myself. A really bright dude can make a huge difference, always. CAD/CAM does not provide solution, only test your solutions so you can use the least crappy solution. If all you came up with are crappy solutions there's nth that a CAD/CAM is going to help you with, aside from telling you how crappy your proposed solution is.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-11 15:55

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-11 15:57 編輯

Russian T-50 plane underside is not that stealthy at all.

Chinese J-20 has very smooth surfaces.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-1-11 16:42

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-1-11 16:54 編輯

回復 93# BiscottiGelato

You are a bit picky on the prototype...

I have never "expected" the J20/T50 are of the same level as F22, I am very open to the "gaps" providing that China has only a short history on aircraft modernization and the Raptors is $361M each... And, I think in the design criteria, the pick between chine and canard tells you the J20 is not that "stealth"...

Yes, you are right, the thrust nozzle is not that "stealth" and Russia and the States got a better technology on vector thrust nozzle...

This is one of the short comings that China aviation has to deal with and must develop...

Once it's deployed, having it priced at 1/2 to 2/3 of the F22 with 65%-75% functionality is already a "BIG" success...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-11 17:10

回復 BiscottiGelato

You are a bit picky on the prototype...

I have never "expected" the J20/T50 ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-1-11 16:42

Clearly you mixed up thrust vectoring with stealthiness. A thrust vectoring engine is not necessarily more stealthy. Thrust vectoring engine is used for controlling altitude and direction.
It is now widely regarded by experts that the Chinese J20 is more stealthy than the Russian T50.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-13 00:20

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-1-13 00:24 編輯