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標題: household income [打印本頁]

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-18 23:08 標題: household income

純粹分享,不喜勿插

最近睇o下d tenant applications, d 人好似愈窮愈多要求,租屋好似要全包
好多個我直接拒絕,叫佢o地去搵BC Housing...

一個household,男o既做sales $35k/year, 女o既做bakery $28k/year
= $63k/year = $5250/month
扣完稅可能得返$4000/month
租屋 $1580 + 電 $50 + cable/internet/電話 $200 = $1830
其實剩返好少錢洗
男o既仲話遲d 想買車....
insurance,入油,泊車,lease/finance 都係錢...
真係唔洗食飯咩....

作者: sheep 時間: 2011-6-18 23:17

回復 1# auyatyat

佢冇加埋啲下欄花利
可能 DOUBLE INCOME 都未定

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-18 23:21

回復 2# sheep

女果個做bakery 一定有大把面包食
男果個普通sales...睇過佢份contract,唔似有乜福利

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2011-6-19 07:28

it's hard to get rich in vanc

作者: fm9610 時間: 2011-6-19 17:42

回復 1# auyatyat

Any mortage or plan to save up to buy house? Only option here is to cut down on TV/Phone/Internet cost. If no other choice, has to move back home to try to save some money first.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-6-19 18:33

回復 1# auyatyat

It all depends on locations. If you live in the interior, your living expense can chop quite a bit...

Life, is full of choices...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-19 19:10

The rent is quite a lot...maybe try to live elsewhere with cheaper rent...
btw... with $1580 rent...why not try to purchase a property ... (I know it would be further away from city core..)

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-19 19:36

my condo is in downtown vancouver....
I don't know how much $ they have in their accounts, it's hard to determine why they don't buy...cos my mortgage is $1280, rent can cover it and the strata fee...
the parking tenant pays $150/month, so, it covers the property tax and property insurance
I never pay for cable, cos I don't watch TV at home, if I have time I go to gym and watch TV there..

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-19 19:48

當然，買屋要俾down payment，但係俾得咁貴租，真係零願儲啲＄嚟做首期。。。

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-6-19 20:55

回復 1# auyatyat

That is not poor. That IS the average household income here in BC.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-6-19 21:36

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil108a-eng.htm

作者: blue20ae 時間: 2011-6-19 22:42

Actually, the applicant is not too far off. The current Housing Affordability index in Vancouver for condo is around 40%.

http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-19 23:55

Actually, bakery 有$28K...俾我想像中多。。。

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 00:10

回復 9# fibbi

有d 人好似對生活好多要求...其實2個人租個東區basement suite $800-1000 應該ok
就係無諗過要儲錢...
租downtown,什費,電..接近$2000 一d 都唔出奇
仲要o係downtown,買o野食o野都貴d....

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 00:11

回復 10# Look4chrisng

true..that's why after expenses, not much saving

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 00:15

回復 7# fibbi

I would say the rent I'm listing is reasonable...
rental apartment (1 bedroom) in west end is about $1200-1400
mine is a high rise condo in coal harbour with facilities and furnished
some rental agents had quoted me $2500/month short term rental, but i want a long term tenant instead

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 00:16

回復 13# fibbi

she said she's a supervisor...
$14/hr full time, i just roughly estimate it

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 00:26

回復 12# blue20ae

thanks for your info, when i applied for the mortgage, the lender said TDSR (total debt service ratio) is 42%
say the mortgage is $1500, strata fee $300, property tax $150, utilities $100, property insurance $30 = $2080/month, you will need to earn at least $4881/month or $58,571/year to get a mortgage...i believe this has to be a professional/skilled job
i think in reality, with $58.5K/year income, income tax 30% roughly (?), one can only have $3400/month disposable income, need to pay $2080/month (calculated above) for housing, will only have $1320/month left...
if the person has a car lease/finance + insurance + gas, it will be $800-1000 easily
only $320 left for food
average household income in BC, and 40% for housing = no life

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-20 00:34

回復 16# auyatyat

I was referring to the other person with $1580 rent that seems a lot for his income...not referring to your list price...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-20 00:36

回復 14# auyatyat

I also know a person paying $1800 to rent a two bedroom condo in downtown for many years... eventually he bought the house after he had kid...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-20 00:38

回復 14# auyatyat

Well..unless they work in downtown so they save $ (and time) for commute to and from work...

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-6-20 08:29

They are probably living on credit.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/r ... ter/article2067705/

Next few years are not looking good in BC for working people. If I were young/single I pack up and move to Montreal/Toronto this weekend.

作者: sko 時間: 2011-6-20 08:52

$4500/month after tax for the couple is not that bad la. Plus, they don't even have a car to add extra weights on their shoulders (most couples in Vancouver probably have 2 cars and that's an expanse of ~$2k/month alone). And perhaps they just don't believe it's the right time to 'buy' EVEN if they had saved up for down.. you never know...

And it's probably easier to rent out unfurnished if you're looking for longer and easier-to-deal-with tenants.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-6-20 10:05

回復 23# sko

A coal harbor condo is at least 1/2 million. Just interest/fees/Ptax is over 2k per month. The rent you charge is relative cheap (maybe be enough to cover all the real costs?)

But cheap doesn't mean inexpensive. I say rent in E. Van somewhere close to skytrain would make more sense.

作者: ricrick 時間: 2011-6-20 10:16

純粹分享,不喜勿插

最近睇o下d tenant applications, d 人好似愈窮愈多要求,租屋好似要全包
好多個我直接 ...
auyatyat 發表於 2011-6-18 23:08

mind to tell us your household income?

作者: sko 時間: 2011-6-20 10:27

回復 sko

A coal harbor condo is at least 1/2 million. Just interest/fees/Ptax is over 2k per mon ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2011-6-20 10:05

I'm guessing this listed condo was sold for around 320k - 400k (subject to the year of the building and size of the unit).

But you're right. All fees add up quickly and especially for DT when parkings are usually not provided unless you pay for them.

I would love to live in DT, too. But personally I can't afford it so I'll stick with my luxury of living at home.

作者: blue20ae 時間: 2011-6-20 11:46

回復 18# auyatyat

Actually, if you make $60K p.a., you pay less than 20% tax, and the marginal tax rate is ~30% (i.e. every extra $ you earn, you pay $0.3 on income tax)

Nevertheless, it would be tight. This is the price of living in a the city. The bigger the city, the bigger portion of your income goes to accommodation.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-6-20 12:47

Well ..  that is Vancouver ..

So many people ..  NO INCOME time ....  ( Collecting money from Government ) and live in multi-million house ..  drive Benz ..  BMW .....

Or ...  some FOB, their parents only make few hundred dollar a month ON PAPER ...  but they hv cash to buy multi million house .. etc etc ..

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-6-20 12:59

回復 auyatyat

Actually, if you make $60K p.a., you pay less than 20% tax, and the marginal t ...
blue20ae 發表於 2011-6-20 11:46

That 20% doesn't include CPP/EI law. But I been trying to figure out household exp for the few years. The numbers will never add up for Vancouver, unless you are on line of credit.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-6-20 13:01

Yeah .. even u make just $60K .. still pay ~ 30% tax in total la.... unless you can write off some expense ..

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:25

回復 25# ricrick

i dont know how much my family members are making,
i have enough to get the mortgage from the bank..
no car loans, and company covers the auto expenses..

but i don't like to live and work at DT...too crowded

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:26

回復 19# fibbi

icic, sorry, I misunderstand you..

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:28

回復 24# Look4chrisng

so far positive cash flow

some 1+ million older homes in westside of vancouver can only rented for $3K, not able to cover mortgage at all... rent helps to pay some property tax only....

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:45

回復 22# Look4chrisng

disposable income rose to 147.3 per cent in the first quarter, surpassing the revised 146.2 per cent mark in the fourth quarter of 2010

scary...

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:46

回復 23# sko

thanks for ur idea..
when i purchased the unit, the previous owner left the furniture, so i just rented it out furnished...
if someone needs to do it as unfurnished, i will dump the furniture...

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:53

回復 29# Look4chrisng

i'm not looking down upon the applicants, just want to say that living in vancouver is so expensive for regular working people....
most buyers are really mainland chinese now, unknown income sources (?)
who the local working people can afford $2 million for just land value in westside of vancouver??
i'm working in DT, 90% of my work days, i bring lunch
restaurants are charging like crazy, my co-workers always go to "fresh bowl" on pacific blvd, asian style take out place, i have been there once, $11+HST for one curry tofu rice! just not worth to buy it....
everything is more expensive in DT, hot dog is $4.5 to $7 very easy...

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:55

That 20% doesn't include CPP/EI law. But I been trying to figure out household exp for the few ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2011-6-20 12:59

yes...i think not living in core downtown is one way to save...

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 17:56

回復 20# fibbi

woo, can save down payment after renting for so many years, he's good...

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-20 18:05

Like to watch reality show "Debt Till Us Part" every Thursday..
http://www.slice.ca/shows/showspage.aspx?title_id=93097

a lot of people spent too much more than they make...

作者: ricrick 時間: 2011-6-20 21:50

回復 ricrick

i dont know how much my family members are making,
i have enough to get the mortgag ...
auyatyat 發表於 2011-6-20 17:25

got it.. u earn more than the couple n u are not married. have a boyfriend yet?

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-21 11:07

回復 40# ricrick

hahahaha

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-6-21 11:17

回復 40# ricrick

a lot of variables, i can have a lot of down payment, and bank needs a small monthly payment only..so i earn min, and can still afford..hahaha

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-6-21 19:39

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: ricrick 時間: 2011-6-21 20:06

又關你事? 抽水怪

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-6-21 21:30

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作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-6-21 22:23

Yee .. 觀音 tea 冰 .. not bad idea wor .. sweeten?

From TW?

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-22 11:17

Dual income at 63k, I think would get taxed as 31.5k income per person? This is marginal tax rate of 20.06%, and an average tax rate of 13.35%. After tax income is at $27,295 x 2 = $54590

For a single income to match this after tax pay, it'll take a gross pay of $69,220.

Despite how the OP says he/she is not looking down on the couple, that's exactly the tone I got from the post. No matter how rich/poor the working people is, they are better than the rich leaching class of Vancouver who made easy money from Asia, buy up million dollars worth of property locally, give hundreds of thousands for their kids for downpayment, and claim next to 0 income when filing their taxes...

To make matter more infuriating, they come out criticizing the hard working people of Vancouver that they are the lower class, they are useless, they'll never catch the real estate 'bubble'.

As long as it's their own dime, tax paid in full, who should be there to criticze how the couple spend their money? Some likes to dump all their money in a mortgage. Some likes to rent and spend instead of putting money into bubbles. As long as they don't spend more than they make, I don't see what's wrong with the way this couple is managing their income. Besides, whatever falling out of their spending habbit is their own mess to clean, don't see why there should be any finger pointing going on.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-6-22 14:50

BG .. easy money from Asia .. um .. not always easy gei ..

And mostly .. Under table ...

But making $63K... ~ $510K HKD compare to our homeland ..

That is decent income ga la..

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-23 14:03

BG .. easy money from Asia .. um .. not always easy gei ..

And mostly .. Under table ... {:8_14 ...
Catpiano 發表於 2011-6-22 14:50

Most of the blingster from Asia just rode on the growth of their country to make their bucket of gold. Just like HK in the 70s, anyone with half a brain will be fairly well off. Nowadays an average smart kid from university in HK will get a 12k HKD starting salary from your big 4 accounting firm. My dad always tell me that the ladies that used to work in garment factories in HK back in the early 90s makes 30k a month. Obviously there's a lot of skills involved in the garment industry also, but you can't take it away that when your country is growing left and right, it's much easier to strike it rich. And doesn't mean that the ways of the past will work for the present. However for the people who stiked it rich in the 70s @ HK and the ones that are striking it rich in China today, I will bet more than otherwise, their ways will have a much tougher time if the setting is changed to developed nation like North America today.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-23 21:55

加拿大，艱難大，咩收入都天一半地一半，就算好似OP講個couple咁family income ＄4000 net都係猛猛緊，儲蓄都好難。買車？分分鐘credit card／line囉。

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-24 15:04

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2011-6-24 15:07 編輯

加拿大，艱難大，咩收入都天一半地一半，就算好似OP講個couple咁family income ＄4000 net都係猛猛緊，儲蓄 ...
fibbi 發表於 2011-6-23 21:55

I disagree. Per Capita GDP shows that Canada and HK is not that far off. And depending on the specifics of the GDP calculation Canada have a higher per capita GDP than HK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Then if you look at income disparity, then you'd see that HK is much inferior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

I'd think there'd be a LOT MORE people in HK that is living like sh_t than in Canada. Both in percentage and in numbers. And what you call sh_tty here is not be able to afford a car and a downtown apartment without incurring a lil debt. In HK we are talking about people who care barely buy enough food for the family, and they can't even take out any credit if they beg in front of the bank... Talk about 艱難 and 猛猛緊.

Look at the other thread. Only 1% of the people in HK have over $1M+ USD, and that factors in your house!!! OUCH!!!

There's a lot of things that's superior in HK. However income and purchasing power of their citizen overall, especially lower class to lower class, is not one of them.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-6-25 13:55

BG .. I read that video again .. I think they are talking $1M US, NOT include their homes...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-25 17:05

本帖最後由 fibbi 於 2011-6-25 17:13 編輯

回復 51# BiscottiGelato

Same income, but tax here is much higher. So net take home income is less.

The social program is much better here. So in a way less people here live like shxx. In my opinion, with the same amount income, the "purchasing power" is stronger in HK. In OP's example, a net family monthly income of $4000 (after tax), can barely have saving or buy a car without borrowing from bank. So for same amount in HK (about $32K monthly), after say same amount of rent, I'm sure the family is able to have some saving. Of course, in HK you don't have to have a car; here due the large geographical size, a car is not really considered as a luxury item. (e.g. in HK, with $32K family income for 2 people, after $15K rent, still about 10K left after tax/MPF, then $4K transportation, $2K food, still 4K left for others). Btw, food is really cheaper in HK.

但係講到好窮好窮嘅家庭，香港嘅生活質數當然差很多，香港都是最近才有最低工資。而且香港寸金尺土，居住環境真係相差很遠。

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-25 18:34

回復 53# fibbi

Check the definition of Purchasing Power Parity. Canada is higher GDP PPP than HK in over half the measures.

You simply is VERY difficult making the same income in HK than here. You can easily make 40k a year here. Try making 320k HKD a year in HK. that's close to 30k a year. You'll have to be in a much higher position in HK to make 320k a year than the person making 40k a year here.

For example, a web designer in HK is paid 19k a month in HK. I'm sure a half good web designer would make easily 50k a year here, and much higher given experience.

Working class vs working class, I am sure that the average Canadian have much higher purchasing power and living quality than the average HKer.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-25 19:09

本帖最後由 fibbi 於 2011-6-25 19:21 編輯

回復 54# BiscottiGelato

I"m not talking about how "easy" to make certain $$ in HK vs here. I don't think it's "easy" to make 40K annually here either. I have friends making less than 40K here, and I also have friends making <$20K HK monthly. I am just trying to say with the same amount of take home pay, after basic expenses(衣食住行, assuming spending same $ in housing), it's easier to save (because of less tax) in HK.
Basic expense like 衣食住行, clothing is certainly cheaper in HK; food (both dine out and grocery) too. Housing market is crazy both here and HK, transportation in HK is cheaper if we compare to owning a car here.

Another thing is that, even making 40K annually here, after tax, how much we got? It's probably about same $ as earning 19K monthly in HK la.

If you are supporting a family (even family of 2), you know how much expense we need to pay, just basic expense (nothing fancy)I'm talking about here...and how $ goes so fast...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-6-25 21:49

When you buy most things here, another 12% goes to the HST.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-6-26 15:15

Well...HK and Canada ...so differt....

Just got some friends and their parents here for visit from HK....they can't hardly stand here la...just 由車可 all the time... And 排隊everywhere....and of course, everything is so much more expensive then HK...(basic item) now they know why most Chinese restaurant owners drive Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche etc.... Easy money here for food industry....

Again, the killing part in HK is housing....as long as the housing problem is solve, the rest is easy.....

So most of my friends are in mid-30's, most of them bought a home ~ 5 plus year ago, when thhe price wasn't that crazy, ( say $2m ) so they are doing ok now, even they don't make a lots of $$$ ... But if they need to buy a home now, $5m plus.....payment would be triple or more..... So....some friends of mine without their owe properties, just give up, and live with parents or rent suen la....

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-26 22:42

回復 BiscottiGelato

I"m not talking about how "easy" to make certain $$ in HK vs here. I don ...
fibbi 發表於 2011-6-25 19:09

Of course, if you make the same take home pay here vs HK u'd bring more money home. But that's a moot comparison. As you'd have to have a lot more job in HK to bring in the same money home.

The fair comparison is the same job here vs same job in HK. For the average working class, same job vs same job one'd have a much more purchasing power and much higher quality of life in Canada vs HK.

Don't get the taxes wrong. People would have you believe that it's crazy high here. You only really pay ridiculous tax if you make insane lots here. For $40k CAD annual income, your average tax rate without doing RRSP is actually under 15%. That's a take home of $34k, which is $272k HKD, or about $22.5k a month. 18% more take home than the 19k HKD income. And you need quite a bit of job to make 19k HKD income.

Putting it into perspective, I think you make close to 40k a year doing big 4 accounting, entry position in HK here, that's 22.5k a month. You make about 12k a month doing big 4 accounting, entry position in HK. With housing being the biggest expense and costing roughly the same between HK and Canada. It's simple to see that the average spending power and living condition of the average worker in Canada is going to be much better than HK.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-26 23:11

居住環境點講都係呢邊好啦。But as I said, housing aside, the other 3 basic expenses, are still much cheaper in HK. So at the end, the result is "you can save more $". But here, can't save much with a similar lifestyle.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-6-27 07:40

Should say ... when live in HK, you have no choice, but to save some money .. (if you can) you need some big chunk of money in case of medical need etc ..

Here .. people don't really like to save a lots, (well, chinese and indian etc do) or say no need to have big chunk of cash, if something happened, health care etc will cover, even giving birth, most people in HK choose to use private hospital .. (talking $50-60K) but here .... well .. no choice .. and free ...

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-27 10:17

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2011-6-27 10:28 編輯

回復 59# fibbi

What I am saying is that this is not true.

For the same job and same quality of living, you'd end up saving more money here than in HK.

If you are saying people here tend to be willing to spend more to get a higher quality of living and thus save less, then that's not even an Apple to Apple comparison.

Putting it into more extreme example to get the point across. It's like saying if you buy a Ferrari you'll save less money than buying a Civic... DUH!

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-6-27 15:41

回復 61# BiscottiGelato

I disagree. As I mentioned, I"m not talking about same job. Even same job, one can get pay differently in HK than here. Nor I'm comparing quality of life either...we always have better living environment. Clean air-priceless.

I'm just talking about with same take home pay, after basic expenses, one can end up save more in HK, just because clothing, food, and transportation are cheaper (assume one spend same $ on rent). Even with the same take home pay, there is sales tax on top here as well. How can we actually save "more" here? And of course, in HK you always want to save, because medical expense could be huge, if you don't want to rely on public health care. Here we just have no choice but to enjoy the free health care.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-27 16:23

回復 62# fibbi

Of course with the same take home pay, you go a lot further in HK. With the same take home pay, you can live like a king in mainland China compare to even HK. What's the point of such comparison however? Doesn't help identify which is a better place to grow your nest egg or start a family, etc. You'll probably need to be a supervisor/manager at a bank in HK to make the same as an entry accountant here. It's like comparing apples to oranges...

The comparison will only be any useful/meaningful if it's the same job, with location being the only variable. Then we can see how location difference alone will impact quality of living and level of savings.

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