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標題: Kwantlen BBA is Unethical! [打印本頁]

作者: ravemother 時間: 2008-3-7 17:09 標題: Kwantlen BBA is Unethical!

I found kwantlen's BBA program is pretty unethical. let me tell u why...

Entrepreneurial Sales and Customer Service
in a 4th-yr Sales course, i need to sell $3500 scholarship for the school in order to pass the course. many students tried so hard to do cold-callings and visits, but still failed to meet the quota. to make the situation worse, Donators can choose to donate in different time period. if they signed up for a 5-yr donation of $5000, only the first year $1000 is counted toward the student credits.

i heart that some students argued with the profs but they ended up giving in but still failed, bcuz of the prof's prejudice.

students already paid to attend the course, but still need to earn money for the school to graduate.

Entrepreneurial Leadership Practicum (6 credit hours)
in this course, students need to start to a real business for at least 6 weeks. each business is ranked by their profit. of cuz the top half of the class will pass and the bottom half will fail.

ALL business profits go to the school!!

another part of this course is a consulting project which students need to provide a consulting report to a real company. if the company does not accept or implement the recommendation by the students. the students fail this project, which also lead to a failing grade.
______________________

i just need to vent my anger...i mean, most students are not rich and many are taking 2 PT jobs to pay for their tuition fee and textbooks, but Kwantlen still doesn't feel for our hardship and try to dig into students' pocket for more money.

i am going to take the Practicum next semester...wish me luck!

Also, any idea for a small business?? i have a few ideas in mind:
1) sell 雞蛋jie
2) sell bottle water in front of sky train, etc (some students did that b4!)

作者: mandip4u 時間: 2008-3-7 18:10

wow... ar u serious??? you have to do all that to get a degree? and it's a degree from Kwantlen we're talking about

I used to study in Kwantlen too, but I only took U tran. I finished my degree in SFU. I remember the last couple of 4th year course, we need to do presentations to "teach" all chapter. That's right, prof just did intro in class #1 and the rest of the semester he just sat there to listen to us. I felt kind of rip off already.... but actually sales for Kwantlen?? wow, u're right! That just plain unethical!!

作者: puZZle 時間: 2008-3-7 18:35

rave if u need any help in your business just find me, your sexy friend

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2008-3-7 18:44

Um.... enough for Vanc Sun head line?

作者: dumbo 時間: 2008-3-7 19:55

I think selling coffee will be better than selling bottle water. Especially for the morning rush at skytrain station.

作者: ravemother 時間: 2008-3-7 23:37

原帖由 mandip4u 於 2008-3-7 18:10 發表
wow... ar u serious??? you have to do all that to get a degree? and it's a degree from Kwantlen we're talking about

I used to study in Kwantlen too, but I only took U tran. I finished my degree ...

yeah, i have to go thru all these to get a degree. i think some students bought this case to the court but kwantlen successfully defended the case. they said it is for students to gain practical experience. but i think this is BS. practical experience can be gained by some other means.

why dun famous business school like UBC doesn't have this ****? it still get the reputation from the business market!

原帖由 dumbo 於 2008-3-7 19:55 發表
I think selling coffee will be better than selling bottle water. Especially for the morning rush at skytrain station.

thx dumbo, it is a good idea. will those sky train patrol bother u if selling stuff in the area?

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2008-3-7 23:47

Kwantlen's BBA Program is not completely unethical, let me tell you why: (I only have Practicum and Business Strategies left)

Entrepreneurial Sales and Customer Service
In the course outline, you have an option to "opt-out" from the donation project in the first week of class. The instructor will assign another project to substitute the sales project. Of course, a few instructors would not explicitly let students know the alternatives unless the students read the thing. However, the condition for opt-out is:

1) You will not know what the project will be.
2) Once the instructor tells you about the alternative project, you cannot back-out.

Your quota counts only 35% of the sales project portion of the course. You still get points by completing the weekly sales trackers, finding prospects, making phone calls and going to meetings. The 35% quotas is also proportioned to the amount you collected. If your quota is $3500, and you collected $1000, you get 1/3 of the 35%.

There are other activities and paper you need to do in class other than the sales project.

The sales class is set up in a way that if you follow through the process, and proactively doing the activities weekly, even you don't make the quota, you will still manage to pass. Every dollar helps, if you can find 20 people and each person donate $10, that $200 will count towards your quota, but won't count as a "sale".

My quota was $2500 w/ $500 minimum per sale. I made 2 sales at the end with a total of $1000. I passed the course with a C, which I don't care because it is not a pre-req for anything else.

Bottomline: There are many ways to pass this course even if you don't close a sale. If you are aiming for an A, then you better start working and get the $$$ in early to get the bonus. If you are aiming to pass, just follow through and don't wait till the end.

Entrepreneurial Leadership Practicum (6 credit hours)
This is probably the most challenging course that will involve quitting the jobs because the commitment of this class is so much. Kwantlen should split this into 2 semesters because 2 projects going on con-currently is just depressing. Depending on who is teaching, I can be certain that if you are taking it from instructor "C", you better start planning your team members. Instructor "C" is probably the worst instructor for ENTR because he either likes you or hates you. He is so busy with his own business that he would cancels weekly meetings with students.

If done correctly, you should have built some networking with businesses so finding a business should not be too hard. The best is to find someone who you know and will work for you.

Business idea for summer: Car Washes. I can guarantee if you wash 3 days a week at 8 hours a day. You will make quite some money. The biggest cost to you is labour, and materials are all fixed cost.

I agree that the profit should not be given to Kwantlen, it should be a fair split. I do feel it's quite tough to go through these 2 courses and I know a few people need to do them 2 times to pass. These 2 courses simply "drain" lives out of students, and those who commit to the course will pass.

Philip

[ 本帖最後由 pkphilip 於 2008-3-7 23:49 編輯 ]

作者: ravemother 時間: 2008-3-8 00:22

hey philip, this is quite informative, thx.

i guess there is no point to fight with the policy. i just wanna finish these 2 courses and get them over with.

作者: chobit 時間: 2008-3-8 00:34

But I still think go out to make money for the school doesn't sound right!? Why can't these money go toward some kind of non-profit!?

I do believe this is something that should bring out to the media..!?

EL

作者: rafy 時間: 2008-3-8 01:38

actually to make it clear, the money students make from sales classes goes to the kwantlen's scholarship fund

作者: sacky 時間: 2008-3-8 13:57

aw man`` im planning to take the BBA and ive just realised whats ahead of me = = thx guys xD

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2008-3-8 18:21

Rave: Don't even TRY to take Practicum and Sales together. Practicum is demanding enough, and not too many people can survive both intensive classes together in one semester. (many tried, and many failed because there isn't enough time)

Another reason why I don't plan to take practicum now is also that the people that I am studying with, most of them are quite strong & rich & have connections. My friends are telling me how tough the course has become to them because the other group makes a lot of profit (suspected cheating), and their marks are awarded based on the rank of the business compare to the class.

Profit does goes to the scholorship funds.

Sacky, other than BBA in Entreprenuer, you can also go for BBA in HR. Which I heard is easier and not as intensive compare to Entreprenuer YET.

Philip

作者: ashtaron14 時間: 2008-3-9 01:28

Every program has its problems. The new BBA program at Langara is full of problems as well... but at least I'm going to be its 1st class

作者: ENTR 時間: 2008-7-22 10:04 標題: Kwantlen

wll, some of the rich kids in my sales calss didn't even do anything. All they needed to do is get their rich parents to give "donate" $$$$$$ to Kwantlen. They didn't even need to write the final.

作者: Mr.JPG 時間: 2008-7-22 11:15

哇有冇甘黑暗啊

作者: MyOMy 時間: 2008-7-22 12:35

I don't know college nowadays is becoming so "innovative". It used to be the college education prep you with theortical and analytical skills, you then go out to find a job and get real and get paid.  A several credit course you have do the theory and the selling, tough ! You must be good.

Somehow I think WORK should be PAID. Where  the proceed go to a charity fund or elsewhere is my WILL.  Sales is hard work, you don't want to see it unpaid.

But, Rave, you have signed up for it and knew the terms, you might as well finish it with hatred or discontent.  Good luck,  my friend.

作者: Mr.JPG 時間: 2008-7-22 12:54

原帖由 MyOMy 於 2008-7-22 13:35 發表 But, Rave, you have signed up for it and knew the terms, you might as well finish it with hatred or discontent. Good luck, my friend

人地畢左業啦。呢個post都成半年啦

作者: notgoddy 時間: 2008-7-22 13:08

Nope, I still see rm @ kwantlen doing business things.
I am sure his complaint is valid, but seems like he got over it. *shrug*

作者: Mr.JPG 時間: 2008-7-22 13:27

I thought he is doing something for the faculty. the Donut thing??

作者: notgoddy 時間: 2008-7-22 13:36

Well, I don't know the guy, I recalled that he is doing it for the business faculty wasn't?

And I didn't mean to imply that his higher morals have been defeated and now he have been reduced to sucking up to the faculty, no I am just making stuff up.

作者: Mr.JPG 時間: 2008-7-22 13:53

for people who want to give him a support. this is the link
http://www.loyaukee.com/forum/vi ... mp;highlight=krispy

I don't know him either.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2008-7-22 20:21

what can we say
it's not unfair for anyone who wants to take these business crap to endure some hardship

作者: ENTR 時間: 2008-7-23 07:51

I think he is still taking the Practicum class. I surely hope that he can pass that class. It is a 6 credit course; it costs $650. There is only one Practicum class offered per semester. The profs. collects all the money generated by the students and fails haft of the class every signal semester. The students who failed would have to pay $650 to retake that course and generate more profit for Kwantlen's scholarship (whatever)....

作者: ravemother 時間: 2008-7-23 10:22

hey guys, thank you for your support.

yes i am still taking it. i'm not doing so well, not bcuz my business suck, but the top team did way too well to compete with. they make almost $4000 PROFIT in the first week, selling frozen meat and make-up.

all my team members have dropped the class, so i am by myself for both the business launch and the business consulting.

i stayed bcuz i dun wanna give up without putting up a fight. i will try my best.

thanks people.

作者: notgoddy 時間: 2008-7-23 10:44

This remind of The Apprentice, except more messed up. Good Luck man.
$4000 profit a week is kind of hard for a student, cause really, who needs school if they can make that already? total bull****.

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2008-7-23 19:47

For the same reason why I didn't bother to take practicum this semester. I knew those people since day 1, and they are too smart and some has connections to get $$$.

Since the marks are tiered based on how much the profit is, I still don't agree it should be the way.

I will be taking mine in Jan.

Philip

作者: notgoddy 時間: 2008-7-23 20:36

I think they should measure profit growth instead from the beginning of semester to the end. But than again, the well connected will still get ahead.

I like the money system, but I don't like money-people.

作者: ENTR 時間: 2008-7-24 20:01

原帖由 ravemother 於 2008-7-23 11:22 發表
hey guys, thank you for your support.

yes i am still taking it. i'm not doing so well, not bcuz my business suck, but the top team did way too well to compete with. they make almost $4000 PROFIT in ...

They made $4000 in the first week...by selling make-up and meat????? I bet profs "C" can't even make that much money in a week.
Do you have to give in what you have earned if you decide to drop half way through the course?
I am planning to take mine in spring 2009 as well. So I am trying to gather more information.

[ 本帖最後由 ENTR 於 2008-7-24 21:29 編輯 ]

作者: ravemother 時間: 2008-12-27 23:18

hey guys, I almost forgot about this post.

I have passed the sales course and practicum is my last course until graduation.

To be honest, the sales course is actually quite useful for business students. i learned many useful skills to make sales from cold callings to negotiations. the experience i gained is valuable.

simply put, the sales course is not unethical. it is a hard course but you learned a lot more than any other course that only teaches you theory.

作者: hks6 時間: 2008-12-28 01:08

I've gone thru these courses.. At that time, I was really mad and felt exactly the same like you. I had to take that sales course twice because I failed the first time. However, after I finished my degree and started my business career, I found that all I've learned from Kwantlen was really really practical. Although I am still against that scholarship selling project, I still found it somewhat helpful. Also, in fact, in my class, there was a student, didn't make a dollar but still passed the course with a B. What she did was answering all his midterms and finals by applying what he's taught in class appropriately. I understand totally it is tough but for sure u'll get thru it.

Add oil!

作者: rockypath 時間: 2008-12-28 03:46

why don't you do a program like this somewhere else. maybe BCIT?

作者: Hyde 時間: 2008-12-28 15:41

start a business and top earner gets to pass..... i guess all I need to do is get my accountant to make some numbers up and present it.... I can sell dog **** and earn more money then everyone else LOL

school is such a waste of time, might as well just skip school and start a business directly

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