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標題: 俄隱形T-50亮相挑戰美F-22 與印度合研撼殲20 [打印本頁]

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-8-18 15:33 標題: 俄隱形T-50亮相挑戰美F-22 與印度合研撼殲20

【明報專訊】俄羅斯第一代隱形戰機T-50，周三在莫斯科國際航空航太展首次公開亮相。新機以「多功能超音速戰鬥機」定位，將成為俄羅斯和印度空軍的主力戰機，抗衡美軍先進的F-22「猛禽」隱形戰機。俄國空軍期望T-50在2016年開始服役，有份參與研發的印度空軍則計劃於2018年起服役，比最快於2020年服役的中國「殲20」隱形機搶先一步。

計劃生產千架最快5年內服役

俄羅斯總理普京與空軍總司令澤林參觀了全長約5分鐘的飛行表演。兩架T-50完成了多個特技動作，包括在引擎幾乎停轉的狀態下低空飛行。但為防泄密，表演並未展示最大的機動性能。T-50由俄羅斯蘇愷設計局於1990年代開始研發，重量約30噸，七成機身用了比鋼堅硬4至5倍的碳纖維複合材料製造，表面塗有特殊塗層，可大大降低雷達、紅外和目視發現的可能，提高它全天候對地對空目標的作戰能力。

T-50機動性高，可在300米距離內升降，輕易改裝成艦載機，最大航程達5500公里，最高時速可達2100公里。機艙內可容納8枚R77型空空導彈，以及兩枚1500公斤航空制導炸彈，另可外掛兩枚射程達400公里的遠程導彈，同時攻擊不同目標。專家透露，T-50同時配備新型航電系統和相控陣雷達，可減輕機師負擔，使其專注執行戰術任務。

造價1億美元低於F-22

去年初，首架T-50原型機試飛成功。俄方計劃未來數十年生產1000架，2014年起作批量採購，約200架用以接替現役的蘇27重型戰鬥機。T-50的研發開支介乎60億至100億美元，預料將來售價8500萬至1億美元，比造價逾億美元的F-22便宜。俄國還以T-50為原型，與印度一起研發專門向印度出口的機型。整個印度第五代戰機總開支將高達350億美元（約2730億港元）。俄印兩國加強軍事合作，矛頭直指中國與巴基斯坦，觸動中巴兩國神經。

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-8-18 15:35

"...兩枚射程達400公里的遠程導彈....

Is it that advance for their new radar system??

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-8-18 18:19

http://en.rian.ru/video/20110817/165867334.html
有片睇
動作不錯，
雖然今時今日好少再會有dog fight既機會......

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-8-18 22:19

回復 3# MoiRhapsody

When exporting these planes to India, I'm curious what type of cooperation between these 2 nations. I don't think it's a good idea for planes to be built in India even there is a technology transfer...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-19 11:05

India cannot even build their own third generation plane. They don't have any technological input to this cooperation of building stealth plane. The Russians just try to get money from the Indians to share their investment. The Indians can just bluff and say they can built this new plane.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-8-19 11:19

回復 5# peter236

Very attractive price for a new gen stealth fighter costs only 100M IMO...

Just have no idea what the maintenance cost is like...

As I've seen in other forums, China's J-10 has a bit of a problem with the maintenance issues... So, accordingly, I think the J-20 still have a long way to go before it can be delivered to the market... As per US, they anticipated 2018; For others, some think it can be as early as 2014... To me, I don't think it can come to production in 2016... Does it make sense to you?

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-19 19:08

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-8-19 19:38 編輯

The J-10B is much better than the original J-10 model, which is already high quality.
For the J-20 with WS15 engine, they probably need 5 years of testing, assuming they have not been testing secretly before unveiling it earlier this year.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-8-20 10:36

回復 7# peter236

J-10B gets a better air intake and a more advanced radar system... It's obviously better than J-10A, which is more like a demo to the public...

For J-20, I really don't have any clue for the stealth portion... T-50 is a real good competitor in terms of price and quality. Other than China and Pakistan, I don't know which nation will take it... Another thing is, China is weak on the advance military marketing strategy... They are working okay on the low-to-medium end products, but definiitely not on the high-end territory...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-20 12:21

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-8-20 12:26 編輯

回復 peter236

J-10B gets a better air intake and a more advanced radar system... It's obviously b ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-8-20 10:36

The J10A is already among the most capable plane of its generation. Pakistan has already placed order for the more advanced J10B plane.

The Russian T50 is less stealthy than the J20 and F22.
The J20 and F22 are a lot cleaner in design.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-8-20 12:32

回復 9# peter236

Watchful for your wordings, I don't want you to be get laughed at in the forum... I don't think J-20 design is as clean as T-50...

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-20 14:10

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-8-20 14:13 編輯

回復 peter236

Watchful for your wordings, I don't want you to be get laughed at in the forum... I ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-8-20 12:32

I don't want you to get laughed at, because from all the information available, most experts would agree the J20 and F22 are cleaner than the T50.
The T50 craftsmanship is way behind that of J20 and F22. Just look at the rivets on the surface T50, you can see it is not as smooth and not as stealthy.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2011-8-20 14:13

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-8-20 14:40 編輯

回復 11# peter236

What "experts" you are relying to...

... yes, smooth is a plus, but it depends on the shape, size and the angle of reflection , too...

Any idea why F117 is called a "stealth plane" even it's so angular...

For your goods, you should learn what the advantages of T-50 over Mig 1.44...

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-8-20 16:06

回復 peter236

For your goods, you should learn what the advantages of T-50 over Mig 1.44...

lo_pak 發表於 2011-8-20 14:13

You are implying something.............

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-20 21:33

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-8-20 22:02 編輯

回復 peter236

What "experts" you are relying to... ... yes, smooth is a plus, but it dep ...
lo_pak 發表於 2011-8-20 14:13

The cleanest is the F22, followed closely by the J20, and then the F35, and way behind is the T50.

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-8-21 01:12

"Unlike the F-22, which uses stealth technology, 85 percent of the surface of Russian T-50 is covered with unique nanotechnological materials that decrease both the visibility of the plane and the air drag. The technical specifications of the missiles for the jet exceed the analogues of the US aircraft. In addition, the T-50 can fire the missiles hidden in internal departments at hypersonic speed. The US fifth-generation aircraft can not do this and has to decelerate for the purpose. "

different approach

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2011-8-21 01:49

and here you go....
http://www.reuters.com/article/2 ... USTRE77H1AZ20110818
我信五成。Mikoyan啲人投輸左可能真係會去成都堀金..........

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-8-21 07:46

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-21 13:57

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-8-21 14:26 編輯

and here you go....

我信五成。Mikoyan啲人投輸左可能真係會去成都堀金..........
MoiRhapsody 發表於 2011-8-21 01:49

I don't believe it at all, based on existing information. Articles like this wants to downplay Chinese design capabilities. They were stunned by Chinese rapidly rising indigenous plane design capabilities and the effectiveness of the J20 plane.

It is kind of funny, that when the J20 first appeared, some pundits claimed they learned from F117. Then some people claimed the J20 looks like the F22. Now this new Mikoyan claim.

The Russians will not sell any stealth plane design to China, since the Russians do not want China to export to other countries.
From Russian's perspective, they can make more money exporting planes than selling the design.
Now with this new J20, China can make more money exporting the planes. The Russian are jealous about this.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-23 00:23

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-8-23 00:29 編輯

According to the existing information, the T-50 has an uneven underside, with lots of radar reflections.
The engine fan blades are over exposed. The air intake with no engine blade blocker.
The new F-18 already has blockers in place which helps a bit, but still reflect back to the radar.

So the T-50 is just a Su-27 with partial stealth, not as good as of J-20 and F-22 at all.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-8-26 21:02

俄米格公司否认曾向成飞歼20项目提供帮助

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2011-08-27/0939663200.html

据俄新社8月26日报道，俄罗斯米格飞机制造公司新闻发言人叶莲娜·费多罗娃星期五表示，俄方过去没有、今后也不会为中国的歼-20第五代战斗机提供部件和技术支持。

　　费多罗娃驳斥了此前俄国内外媒体有关歼-20使用了米格-1.44技术验证机技术和部件的报道。

　　她表示：“我们不曾将米格-1.44的任何部件和技术提供给中国用于研制歼-20第五代战斗机。”

　　米格-1.44是米格公司研制的一种第五代战斗机的验证机，原本是用于对抗美国的F-22。但俄罗斯军方最终放弃了该型战机，转而实施T-50项目。

　　米格公司发言人同时还强调，俄罗斯与中国之间在第五代战斗机研制领域不存在任何联系。

　　英国路透社8月18日曾报道称，中国第5代战斗机歼-20可能是根据俄罗斯方面提供的技术研制而成的，其推测依据是歼-20与未能量产的米格-1.44在外形构造上非常相似。(北斗)

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