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標題: Vancouver peaceful demonstration against anti-China reporting by western media [打印本頁]
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-29 23:50     標題: Vancouver peaceful demonstration against anti-China reporting by western media







作者: jackmeister    時間: 2008-3-30 00:19

tired of the anti-china bs.. most people that talk about it probably have never been in tibet
作者: celeron_266    時間: 2008-3-30 00:50

those are not anti-china la...they are anti anti-china!
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-3-30 08:56

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作者: soli    時間: 2008-3-30 11:52

西藏未解放前係實行農奴制度﹐D喇嘛就係農奴主。

解放後中共將土地撥歸農奴﹐改善農奴既生活﹐班喇嘛原農奴主就哽係唔妥中共。而家作反o個D都係前農奴主喇嘛(和後代)同一部份被利用既宗教狂熱份子﹐所以話唔係達賴背後策劃/支持既就真係鬼信。

講到漢化問題﹐當地很多學校都用母語教學(非普通話)﹐目的就係要保護西藏文化﹐但到頭來藏人普通話不流利考不上大學當不了幹部就話歧視藏人﹐真係無奈~
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-3-30 12:19

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作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-30 15:07

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-3-30 08:56 發表
呢班出來抗議反中國既人絕大部份（甚至係全部？）都係漢人。點解我唔見藏民自發性咁企出來講佢地想要D乜？ （記注，係自發性出來講佢地想要D乜過隻，而唔係中共安排出來講野過D被買通左既藏人。）中共政府有無問過藏人佢地想要D乜？西 ...


What a load of anti-China crap from you? Why are you and those pro-Tibetan people doing here diluting the culture of the native Indians? Tibet is a remote region that is difficult to develop economically. They can't blame it on China. If those Tibetans want to join the modern world, they need to receive more education. Maybe they should learn some more modern skills, Chinese and English. But by learning English, won't that be a dilution of their culture? This is where western bigotry comes in again. What's wrong with HK people making money? This is none of your business at all.

[ 本帖最後由 peter236 於 2008-3-30 15:09 編輯 ]
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-3-30 17:44

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作者: echo    時間: 2008-3-30 22:31

活佛轉世係政治考慮, 唔好以為真係"神" 既意思,

藏人想要咩呢? 達賴係唔係民主選舉產生呢?

你又點睇政教合一, 係唔係要保留千百年來西藏既傳統呢 ?
作者: kipposhi    時間: 2008-3-30 22:43

GCHQ Confirms Violent Riots Staged By Chinese
PLA agents instigated unrest to justify crackdown

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, March 27, 2008
               

Britain's GCHQ spy agency has confirmed the fact that Chinese People's Liberation Army agents posing as monks staged violent riots in Tibet in order to justify a brutal crackdown, but that the demonstrations have now escalated beyond Beijing's control.

According to a report in today's Epoch Times, "GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculated by the Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out the simmering unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcome world attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer."

Fearing that legitimate demonstrators would become more active in the months leading up to the Beijing Olympics, Chinese authorities planned to create a pretext to crush the movement by instigating violence that would sour global opinion towards the Tibetans.

(Article continues below)

According to the report, GCHQ's geo-positioned satellites in space were able to obtain images proving that the Chinese had infiltrated agent provocateurs into Lhasa. PLA agents posing as monks were responsible for setting fire to buildings and killing non-ethnic Chinese citizens as well as police in an attempt to demonize the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan freedom movement.

However, according to the report, "What the Beijing regime had not expected was how the riots would spread, not only across Tibet, but also to Sichuan, Quighai and Gansu provinces, turning a large area of western China into a battle zone."

Though the report seems to explain why images showed supposed Tibetans protesters inexplicably burning their own villages, it has to be cautioned that Epoch Times is a traditionally pro-Tibetan news outlet and there's no doubt that propaganda is being used by both sides.

It's probable that Chinese PLA agents instigated some of the violence but the fact that young Tibetans are engaging in violence completely of their own accord is largely accepted.

As the report points out, many of the Dalai Lama's supporters are "young, unemployed and dispossessed and reject his philosophy of non-violence, believing the only hope for change is the radical action they are now carrying out"

On a personal note, having visited Tibet myself and experienced some less than cordial interactions with the Tibetan people, it has to be said that they are certainly not deserving of the angelic tag some quarters of the media lavish upon them - being tribal, aggressive and spiteful towards foreign visitors as well as hostile towards tourists from the Chinese mainland.

As we reported on Monday, former Chinese Communist Party official Ruan Ming was the first to accuse China of staging the violent riots in order to demonize Tibetans in the eyes of the international community, justify a brutal paramilitary police crackdown and force the Dalai Lama to resign.

"The demonstration on March 10 was meant to be peaceful. You can see from the pictures that the demonstration was all monks," he explained, adding that the CCP carefully introduced violent unrest in order to "deceive the world".

http://www.prisonplanet.com/arti ... 8_violent_riots.htm
作者: kipposhi    時間: 2008-3-30 22:46

Sources at British Spy Agency Confirm Tibetan Claims of Staged Violence

LONDON—Britain''s GCHQ, the government communications agency thatelectronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed theclaim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People''s LiberationArmy, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have lefthundreds of Tibetans dead or injured.
GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculatedby the Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out thesimmering unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcomeworld attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer.

作者: Catpiano    時間: 2008-3-30 22:47

Both my wife and I are totally lost ..

what happened ?? why is anti anti china? those are chinese people in Van ??  I heard something on radio .. but I can't even get one word from that guy .. (I think he speak eng .. in mandarin style )

I just know Team Canada beat team China .. and take the world champ!!

[ 本帖最後由 Catpiano 於 2008-3-30 22:49 編輯 ]
作者: echo    時間: 2008-3-30 22:48

youtube

[ 本帖最後由 echo 於 2008-3-30 22:49 編輯 ]
作者: kipposhi    時間: 2008-3-30 22:48

Chinese People''s Liberation Army pose as monks.  
作者: rs1985    時間: 2008-3-30 22:53

i want to ask you guys
people always want to respect the freedom and independence of Tibet ?
how about Hawaii ?  How about English and her commonwealth ???
think about it
before you guys complain about 1 place
look at the others
dun have double standard for different places please
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-30 23:44

原帖由 rs1985 於 2008-3-30 22:53 發表
i want to ask you guys
people always want to respect the freedom and independence of Tibet ?
how about Hawaii ?  How about English and her commonwealth ???
think about it
before you guys complain a ...


Those western imperialists do not talk about their invasion of places like North America and Australia. They have destroyed the culture of the natives and aboriginals.

[ 本帖最後由 peter236 於 2008-3-30 23:49 編輯 ]
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 00:09

原帖由 kipposhi 於 2008-3-30 22:48 發表
Chinese People''s Liberation Army pose as monks.  



Do you even know what type of website prisonplanet.com is? What a childish kid you are in believing those crap from prisonplanet.com? If this is even remotely "true", the good old BBC and New York Times would be claiming this as "truth". By quoting this article shows how simplistic and anti-China you are.

Someone responded to this article by saying:

Every news item should be scrutinized to:

1. “who” wrote the article
2. “where” the article comes from - the source

[ 本帖最後由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 00:31 編輯 ]
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 00:11

原帖由 echo 於 2008-3-30 22:48 發表
youtube


Those Tibetans are so violent this time.
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 00:17

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-3-30 17:44 發表
阿 Peter-John 仔，我真係好鬼死鐘意睇你D回覆，因為我睇親就會諗起你扯火果個樣，再加上你講果D語無論次既野，我真係唔笑死都幾難。

藏人想要做喇嘛，點解要先得到中共政府既審批？而且個審核過程係非常之難，好多時都會 re ...


Hey Lik,

You are always so funny. Every time I read your anti-China and pro-British rhetoric, I can see your image as an obedient British dog. How cute that is?

[ 本帖最後由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 00:24 編輯 ]
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 00:30

原帖由 kipposhi 於 2008-3-30 22:43 發表
GCHQ Confirms Violent Riots Staged By Chinese
PLA agents instigated unrest to justify crackdown

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, March 27, 2008
               

Britain's GCHQ spy agency has confirmed t ...


Look, you have a prisonplanet.com article quoting epochtimes.com which is another anti-China website. There goes the credibility of the claim.
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-3-31 00:32

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作者: Traum    時間: 2008-3-31 00:45

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作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2008-3-31 00:57

大紀元（Epoch Times 即係法輪功)俾既料我一定唔會信到十足。In fact，我一兩成都未必敢信，但幅相又確係好令人懷疑，究竟呢班係咪真係解放軍呢？佢地D衫又幾似 wor？那住係手果件係咪真係喇嘛袍呢？亦都幾似 wor？做乜成班解放軍會那住件喇嘛袍既呢？幅相又係咪最近呢幾日響拉薩影既呢？

話唔定係d喇嘛扮解放軍, d喇嘛換好哂衫之後就集合一齊去生事都未定.
佢地手上果年衫又幾似喇嘛袍? 身上果件係咪真係解放軍制服呢? 亦都幾似架woh? 做乜成班喇嘛會著住解放軍既制服又唔捨得放但佢地套喇嘛袍既呢？幅相又係咪最近呢幾日響拉薩影既呢？
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 00:58

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-3-31 00:32 發表
大紀元（Epoch Times 即係法輪功)俾既料我一定唔會信到十足。In fact，我一兩成都未必敢信，


Many people still remember how the French government cracked down on their own riots. It was so funny that the French wanted to boycott the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Tibet became part of China many centuries ago. But the western media claimed that China invaded Tibet. This is where the bigotry is. If China did invade Tibet, that was probably hundreds of years ago. Remember that was way before the Europeans settlers invaded North America and Australia. But there is no mention of such invasion and destruction of native culture by the western imperialists. If they really believe China should leave Tibet, maybe they should leave North America and Australia.
Lik, like you said, in this day and age we should not "occupy" others' land. Maybe you and the imeprialists should leave this country.

[ 本帖最後由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 01:00 編輯 ]
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2008-3-31 01:03

另一樣我想講既就係，D紅苗軍既傻仔成日話西方世界以前點樣殖民、點樣南北內戰、點樣霸左人地土人D地方。唔該你地醒少少，睇下依家係咩年代，果陣時又係咩年代？人地殖緊民果陣中國大陸又做緊D乜野呢？再講，唔通十八、九世紀果套思想依家你中國仲可以響廿一世紀用？！


人地十八、九世紀仲比大陸而家先進, 大陸山區有好多鄉村係好窮, 窮到連飯都冇得食, 同佢講乜野叫做綠影機, 高清電視機既話, 就不如同佢講下電燈膽同電話好過啦.
每個地方既民主步伐都唔同, 如果夾硬將自己果一套放o係別人身上都未必係一件好事.
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2008-3-31 01:05

想咬人既話，不如等我教精你，早兩日國家外交部發言人就講得幾醒啦，識得暗示早兩年法國暴動果陣，法國政府同防暴警察都有用鎮壓手法。又或者應該去吠下阿 GW Bullshxt 走去打人果D野。你要吋人，自己都要有返多少水準先得架？唔係俾同學仔笑，又或者成日俾人吋返轉頭就唔好啦～


力兄, peter仔真係厚面皮到用左你法國暴動既example去反擊你woh...厲害!
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 01:13

原帖由 mcjohnjohn 於 2008-3-31 00:57 發表

話唔定係d喇嘛扮解放軍, d喇嘛換好哂衫之後就集合一齊去生事都未定.
佢地手上果年衫又幾似喇嘛袍? 身上果件係咪真係解放軍制服呢? 亦都幾似架woh? 做乜成班喇嘛會著住解放軍既制服又唔捨得放但佢地套喇嘛袍既呢？幅相 ...


This photo is probably real, unless it was photoshopped. But if you follow the link to the articles at prisonplanet.com and epochtimes.com, you cannot even find the same photo. Those websites mostly use small size photos. Where did the photo came from? When was it taken? We have to ask our fellow LYK kipposhi who posted this photo.

[ 本帖最後由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 01:21 編輯 ]
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2008-3-31 01:35

原帖由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 17:13 發表


This photo is probably real, unless it was photoshopped. But if you follow the link to the articles at prisonplanet.com and epochtimes.com, you cannot even find the same photo. Those websites mostly ...


If someone take a photo of you when you are standing at the entrance of a female washroom, even the photo is real, what does it represent?
Can I say that you have just left the female washroom?
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 01:55

原帖由 mcjohnjohn 於 2008-3-31 01:35 發表


If someone take a photo of you when you are standing at the entrance of a female washroom, even the photo is real, what does it represent?
Can I say that you have just left the female washroom?


Well, if a photo shows you standing at the entrance of a female washroom, it is probable that you have just left the female washroom in that photo. Maybe you are just about to go in. It depends on the direction.
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 01:56

原帖由 mcjohnjohn 於 2008-3-31 01:03 發表


人地十八、九世紀仲比大陸而家先進, 大陸山區有好多鄉村係好窮, 窮到連飯都冇得食, 同佢講乜野叫做綠影機, 高清電視機既話, 就不如同佢講下電燈膽同電話好過啦.
每個地方既民主步伐都唔同, 如果夾硬將自己果一套放 ...


Yeah, some imperialists like to impose their ways on other people.
作者: echo    時間: 2008-3-31 06:47     標題: 中國為什麼不願和達賴對話？梁文道

中國為什麼不願和達賴對話？

【明報3月29日專訊】西藏問題是一團迷霧，只要你朝它多走一步，你就會發現原來所相信的任何一種簡單立場都能碰上理據十足的反駁。不只現在的西方媒體造假與中國傳媒監控各惹嫌疑，歷史上的詭局謎團更是令人眼花撩亂。如果你認為「自古以來」，西藏就是中國的一部分；你將會發現要花很多時間去解釋古代宗主國對藩屬的關係為什麼等同於現代民族國家和它的轄下省份(越南反而是中華王朝的一省)。反過來說，如果你相信在「中國入侵」之前，西藏是片連丁點暴力都不可能發生的和平淨土；那麼你又該如何理解14任達賴喇嘛裏頭只有3位順利活到成年的事實呢？假如你覺得文革對西藏的破壞是不可饒恕的，你或許應該知道當年打砸佛寺佛像的主力之一竟然是藏人。假如你認為中央對西藏的宗教自由已經足夠寬容，甚至准許流亡在外的眾多上師返鄉建寺(最有名的當屬頂果欽哲法王)；你可能也曉得現在的西藏小學生是連隨身護符也不准帶的。

在種種互相衝突的證據和理論之上，任何一方要是堅持自己的行動方向，其實都是在玩一場後果難斷的賭局。為什麼明明有那麼多線索顯示與達賴喇嘛漸行漸遠的「西藏青年大會」才是騷亂主謀，中央政府仍然堅持要把達賴拉下水呢？為什麼中央不肯聽陳思這些獨立學者的意見，趁並不堅持獨立而且態度溫和的達賴喇嘛圓寂前與他對話呢？

這就是中國政府的賭局了。大家都曉得，就算達賴在海外轉世，一個幼年的靈童也起不了什麼作用。近日，十七世大寶法王將要接下藏人精神領袖位置的傳聞甚囂塵上，證據之一是他剛剛才公開向藏傳佛教各派上師致請安禱文，大有團結各派系的意思。可是，即便尊貴如他，恐怕也代替不了達賴喇嘛在藏民與世界各地支持者心目中的地位。沒錯，達賴一走，中國就會少掉一個難以應付的對手，但是激進的「藏青會」豈不也是會趁勢崛起？各種極端的主張和暴力的手段豈不將如脫韁野馬般地蜂擁四起？

然而，對中國政府而言，這或許也是正中下懷的好事，因為整個海外西藏流亡政府運動將會名正言順地變成人人得而誅之的恐怖分子，昔日的和平宗教色彩將因此一掃而空。有人可能會擔憂那些恐怖活動帶來的破壞和犧牲，不過，沒有風險又怎能叫做賭局呢？更詭異的是流亡西藏運動一旦走上了暴力路線，本來隱匿的「外國勢力」也會變得非常尷尬，他們願不願意直接敵對中國，支持一個公開放棄非暴力主義的組織呢？可見中國政府鷹派對待達賴的拖延手法其實不是外間所以為的愚蠢盲目，反而是相當聰明的。最大的問題只是中國要付出多大的代價呢？大家是否都做好了長期武裝抗爭和剛性鎮壓的準備呢？所有平民百姓知不知道以後的日子可能要在惶恐中度過呢？因為除了「疆獨」，日後或許會多出一批前所未見的劫機犯。

就算中國政府預備好了硬性的手段，面對藏人普遍的忿恨不滿；它既不可能把他們統統都蒸發掉，也不可能成功地按照自己幾十年來的邏輯，將「極少數的藏獨分子」和「絕大多數的愛國藏胞」完全分隔。另一方面，即便流亡海外的西藏獨立運動真的完成了最不可能的夢想，爭得西藏獨立；他們也不得不面對西藏境內早已住上了許多漢人和回民的現實，難道你能強迫他們全部離開嗎？更不用提四川、甘肅、青海、內蒙古等地藏區多民族混合的局面了。所以，無論你抱持何種政治立場，你也不能不認真對待漢藏等民族間日後相處的問題。於是在徹底壓抑西藏文化主體性與藏獨這兩個各走極端的方向之間，我們至少就可以找到一個最起碼的共通點，最大的公約數了，那就是真正的民族和解。

像「藏青會」這樣的組織有何想法，我們姑且不論。但在中國政府這一方面，若是想西藏長治久安，若是想日後高枕無憂，它其實還有很大的活動空間。首先要破除的，就是那呆板單向的民族政策了。一直以來，中國官方實施的少數民族政策總是以那些少數民族為工作對象，渾然忘卻了真正多民族國家更需注重的是強勢民族本身的習性和視野。也就是說，一個完整的民族政策不能只是面向藏人，更包括了漢人自身的改造。關於這點，由於所需篇幅甚多，我們下回再談。
作者: kipposhi    時間: 2008-3-31 09:12

The second one is from G2 Bulletin.

Peter-John, where are those four pictures from? And what do they mean?
作者: (-_-')    時間: 2008-3-31 10:12

原帖由 kipposhi 於 2008-3-30 22:46 發表
Sources at British Spy Agency Confirm Tibetan Claims of Staged Violence

LONDON—Britain''s GCHQ, the government communications agency thatelectronically monitors half the world from space, has confir ...



would china do that (police dress as monks and create riot) in this time of the year ? why wouldn't they do that after olympic?
and would they do it in the public ( like holding monk's clothes in police uniform in a crowded street?)
At this time of the year i think they will do everything very carefully before the olympic..   since they have invested so much into olympic that they won't do stupid things just 5 months short of the event and destroy its carefully built image over the last 2 years or so..  (like citizens' politeness... etc. )

I haven't got time to read all the news and stuff..  that's just my 2 cents..
作者: chunsh    時間: 2008-3-31 11:58

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-3-30 08:56 發表
呢班出來抗議反中國既人絕大部份（甚至係全部？）都係漢人。點解我唔見藏民自發性咁企出來講佢地想要D乜？ （記注，係自發性出來講佢地想要D乜過隻，而唔係中共安排出來講野過D被買通左既藏人。）中共政府有無問過藏人佢地想要D乜？西 ...



I saw those "lama" and some other 藏民 running around to burn and hit something / someONE, so u called such actions 有骨氣??

wow, lik, I think even Bush is not that Anti-China as you do
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 12:33

原帖由 kipposhi 於 2008-3-30 22:46 發表
Sources at British Spy Agency Confirm Tibetan Claims of Staged Violence

LONDON—Britain''s GCHQ, the government communications agency thatelectronically monitors half the world from space, has confir ...



kipposhi, please do not deceive us here. First, you quoted from two qestionable anti-China websites like prisonplanet.com and epochtimes.com.
Then you used a seemingly related picture, that was not even used by those two websites, to prove the claims that those websites made are genuine.

My friend, remember one of Andy Lau's movie <天下无贼> which was partly shot in Tibet. That picture with all those PLA people was from the movie set of <天下无贼>. Please do not mislead people, they are only temporary actors in the movie. Now we all know how desperate you are in bashing China.
作者: chunsh    時間: 2008-3-31 14:04

原帖由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 12:33 發表

My friend, remember one of Andy Lau's movie <天下无贼> which was partly shot in Tibet. That picture with all those PLA people was from the movie set of <天下无贼>. Please do not mislead people, they are only temporary actors in the movie. Now we all know how desperate you are in bashing China.

...


wah, is it true?
if so, then kipposhi can bend the truth WAY better than Chinese communists government.
作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-3-31 14:15

LOL.  Busted?
作者: kipposhi    時間: 2008-3-31 16:45

原帖由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 12:33 發表



kipposhi, please do not deceive us here. First, you quoted from two qestionable anti-China websites like prisonplanet.com and epochtimes.com.
Then you used a seemingly related picture, that was not ...


Let me clarify it one more time.  The first one is from prisonplant.com and it quoted epochtimes.com.  The SECOND one (the one with picture) is from G2 Bulletin.

I did not watch the movie you mentioned.  Are you sure that picture really from that movie?

What are your pictures from?  Did you make them up?
作者: chunsh    時間: 2008-3-31 17:03

anyways,  we all know Chinese government is dirty (oh well, which government is not dirty, by the way), but I dun think they are dumb that order the troops to pretend to be "lama" while they know that the reporters from other countries are trying their best to sneak in and take some hardcore pictures AND while they know all those peeping satellie from "cowboys" are all gathering in the sky to watch them
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 18:27

原帖由 kipposhi 於 2008-3-31 16:45 發表


Let me clarify it one more time.  The first one is from prisonplant.com and it quoted epochtimes.com.  The SECOND one (the one with picture) is from G2 Bulletin.

I did not watch the movie you menti ...


Those are pictures taken by the Chinese people who went to the rally at the Vancouver Central Library.

[ 本帖最後由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 18:33 編輯 ]
作者: Babida    時間: 2008-3-31 18:50

轉載：
虽然我并没有经常在西藏，但是断断续续也因为工作原因住了好几年，很多藏区都去过。
　　我想先说一下，请博论的民运愤青们都先搞清楚，“藏独”和“信奉达赖喇嘛”是完全不同的两件事情。
　　达赖喇嘛，在藏传佛教中的地位是崇高的，达赖喇嘛和班禅大师都是格鲁派创始人宗喀巴大师的弟子，在藏族人民心目中的地位也是崇高的，这是几百年来的传统，并不是因为第十四世达赖喇嘛涉及到“独立”问题藏族人才那么信奉他，而是从始至终都非常信奉他。这是西藏问题的关键，如果不理解这一点，什么讨论都会失去公允性。
　　
　　一提起达赖喇嘛，几乎所有的人都骂声不绝，把他作为藏独势力的头头，但是达赖喇嘛自从70年代开始，就放弃了“独立”这两个字，而改用“高度自治”来作为他的诉求。当然，作为政治人物来说，任何动作都可能隐藏着其他用意，愤青们当然可以理解为“见风使舵”之类的，但是，就我而言，我觉得他是一个相当伟大的人。当80年代末，拉萨暴乱之后，政治局势趋于稳定，西藏不会再出多大乱子，这时达赖喇嘛没有必要一再让步，因为很明显，我国政府绝对不会放弃西藏地区的控制权，他的任何“高度自治”的诉求明显不会被接受，他大可以保持着受害者和诺贝尔和平奖获得者的身份，在世界各地访问讲座，丝毫无损于他的名声。但是近年来，他连续多次尝试和中央政府谈判，希望能够和平的解决西藏问题。就我个人认为，达赖喇嘛相当有诚意，为了自己的民族，一再的降低自己的底线，值得尊敬。
　　说到这里，也许有兄弟就会骂了，“我们把西藏管得好好的，他算什么，能有多大影响？”
　　他有多大影响？我举个例子，05-06年中国各大藏区开展了焚烧珍稀动物毛皮的行动，并不是政府组织的，而是自发的。为什么？因为达赖喇嘛在印度的法会上提到愈演愈烈的在藏装上镶嵌珍稀动物毛皮的行为，他表示很失望。结果，各藏区政府十几年来屡禁不绝的珍稀动物毛皮走私活动销声匿迹，因为藏民都不穿了，烧掉了。有个青海的官员私下哀叹“我们严厉的法规和打击行动，还顶不上达赖喇嘛一句话”。
　　以上是想说明，藏族的老百姓是多么信奉达赖喇嘛，所以，他是解决西藏问题的关键。
　　
　　而另一方面，几乎全民信奉达赖喇嘛的藏族，有多少支持藏独呢？
　　我敢肯定的说，没有多少。
　　19年前拉萨发生了暴动，那时候政治局势并不稳定，大批对政府不满的老百姓被煽动起来闹事。而这次，我认识的所有在拉萨的藏族朋友，没有一个赞成那些人的行为，经过19年的交融，大多数藏族汉族都深深地了解对方，很多藏族的朋友同事亲人都是汉族，又怎么会闹得起来呢？谁不喜欢平静的生活？只有极少数对社会不满的人，才会躲在阴暗的角落里恶毒的煽动。当然我这么说可能还有人不信，不信，，恩，你自己去西藏转一转，交些藏族朋友，就什么都能感觉到了。
　　那么还有人会问了，为什么每年都有人逃去印度那边，难道他们不是想独立么？我告诉你，没错儿，确实每年有几百人跑去印度的达兰萨拉，那里号称小拉萨。但是，你们可以查一下，逃过去的人，是什么人？有钱人？no no，几乎都是穷人，僧侣，甚至有钱的僧侣都不会跑过去，为什么？很简单，好端端的日子放着不过，跑过去干什么？而据我所知，达兰萨拉的日子也不好过，印度人对藏族相当排挤，认为他们抢了自己的饭碗，绝大部分过去的人也只能靠出卖劳力生活，去年还有国际报道称，国际社会给与西藏流亡政府的援助，貌似有一半被噶厦的官员贪污掉了。
　　
　　还有哥们问了，你说达赖喇嘛不提藏独，怎么有那么多的“free tibet”的小旗子飞来飞去？因为在中国之外，还生活着100万藏族，相当一部分都没有工作，甚至连英语都勉勉强强，他们对汉族抱着巨大的敌意。很多激进的团体甚至很早就提出了要进行恐怖活动。这种人，就是世界各地“藏独”的主力，但是如果退一万步讲，真的“独立”成功了，他们大多数人也不会放弃国外的生活回去的。虚伪，我个人这样形容他们。
　　
　　提到贪污，也不能不提我们伟大的党治下的西藏自治区政府，就全国范围来说，没有人比他们更贪了，看得我真是毛骨悚然。在内地也见过贪污的，还没见过这么嚣张这么明目张胆的，现在基本全藏区所有的有利可图的工程，你不塞个几十万是不行的，不论藏汉，贪得一个比一个厉害。我有几个在林芝做工程的藏族朋友，前两年想组建个工程队把林芝八一地区的机场工程拿下，后来一问，别的不要提，先给塞200万再谈，当时就放弃了。还有我亲眼见到拉萨一个厅长，有人求他办事，拎了两瓶人头马，结果人家还生气了，气得要死，说你拿这个算什么，让把酒放到引擎盖上，给他的司机说，这种破玩意，你喝不喝？！很巧合，据说这帮硕鼠贪污中央给西藏的拨款，也是一半，呵呵，莫非是官场通例不成？
　　就这么个自治区政府，几乎各级官员都不做实事，整天吃喝玩乐，贪污受贿，中央一个都不管，为什么？只要你政治稳定，贪破天我们都不管。结果呢？这几年这帮龟孙子钱没少贪，结果弄出这次的事情来。平时他们对于藏族的管理方法，只是一味的压制，宗教方面更是压得厉害，前年我去拉萨，听说色拉寺僧人要修个厕所，结果还要宗教口的领导批准。一个离拉萨有一百多公里县里的寺院，在一个山脚下，要在门口的空地上修个厨房，还要给宗教口的人打报告，结果还没被批准。这些行为大多数都是 “援藏”干部所为。本土的干部呢，更是乐得逍遥，有事儿发生更好，只要能镇压住，发生越多对他们越有利。西藏解放后的那些元老，大都退休了，赋闲在家，但是去年一听说中央和达赖喇嘛特使谈判，马上跳脚的跳脚，闹上吊的闹上吊，有人还直接将中央的军，说“达赖要是回来，我们马上上山打游击去！” 为什么？因为如果达赖喇嘛真的能和中央达成一致，回到中国，那这些元老的子孙利益者们肯定大受损失。可以说，最不希望西藏问题和平解决的，就是这帮盘踞在西藏的贪官们，他们最希望看到的就是西藏问题悬而不决，时不时有些小麻烦，中央不管，他们乐得做自己的土皇帝。受苦的还是老百姓。这次的暴动中，那些藏族年轻人，也有相当一部分的因素是要发泄被压制已久的愤怒。我认识的一位政协委员朋友昨天私下说，这次事件多多少少能够让中央警觉，西藏的官员无能到什么程度了。
　　
　　而对于西藏的老百姓来说，他们肯定是希望达赖喇嘛能够回来，但是绝大多数人也不会为了什么虚无缥缈的“藏独”去行动。而且中央最好能够在达赖喇嘛的有生之年解决西藏问题。根据藏传佛教的规定，达赖喇嘛和班禅仁波切是互相认证的，即，一位圆寂了，另一位认证他的转世，这样互相认证。如果现在的达赖喇嘛去世了，那么在中央控制下的班禅仁波切再认证个新的达赖喇嘛，藏族肯定不承认。也许更多的抱怨和反抗就会发生。
　　也许有的哥们说了，反抗有毛用，杀光了算了。是的，也许在你来看，中国的500万藏族还不如你今天的晚餐重要，但是你想象一下，当你是这500万人中的一分子，你会有何感想？
　　
　　对于今时今日的西藏，中央的政策是积极的，这也是爱藏人士和藏族所赞成的，然而在保存藏文化发展藏区经济方面，要做的事情太多太多。
　　
　　作为一个对藏族稍微了解一些的人，我只是胡乱说说自己的看法，并不准确，但是是我的心声，西藏现在需要的，是健康的发展和对藏文化的保护，以及西藏问题的和平解决，坛子里这些喊打喊杀的兄弟，如果你们有一个真正的藏族朋友，也许你们就不会说那些话了，如果大家真的关心西藏，请你们多多了解西藏的历史和现状，相信你们会爱上她的。
　　至于那些仅仅是用“西藏历史问题”作为你们诋毁中国政府工具的所谓民主人士，你们还是哪儿凉快哪儿呆着去吧。
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-3-31 20:56

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作者: Babida    時間: 2008-3-31 22:54

check this too..

http://www.anti-cnn.com/
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-3-31 23:53

原帖由 kipposhi 於 2008-3-31 16:45 發表


The SECOND one (the one with picture) is from G2 Bulletin.


kipposhi, do you actually pay a fee to subscribe to websites like G2 Bulletin?
作者: chunsh    時間: 2008-4-1 00:09

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-3-31 20:56 發表

Wow, chunsh. Are you just really good at distorting the facts, or do you have a problem in understanding/comprehening what other people are saying?

If I wasn't feeling so sick tonight, I would have  ...



香港人只係接受現實﹐搵銀最緊要
唔似有的人﹐自己明明中國人﹐但逢中必反﹐英國佬明明無俾民主我地﹐重干預過香港既言論自由 (禁過Sam Hui 某的歌)﹐但成日又有人當佢地神o甘拜。。。真係。。。。


以前中國為左統戰, and 又出/入口  business o既原因﹐先下下就住我地的香港人o者, 家下你搵 mud 野同人作講數籌碼呀? 有好多香港人家下要靠中國(成家)開飯
o架, 民主﹐~~~~~要人照顧重要甘多 "Ghee Gud"? 香港人先無o甘"思徒拔"啦

你o甘深明大義﹐急人民所急﹐不如你黎解釋一下"自治同藏獨" 有o羊分別?
(不過我覺得你識答既話我反為會覺得奇怪﹐唔同你係藏人而又能代佢地講o野?)
作者: peter236    時間: 2008-4-1 00:33

All you guys should read this link. It is a very interesting article of the research that the writer had done to prove that the photo in question was indeed from the set of Andy Lau's movie "A World Without Thieves".

http://people.tribe.net/thinkpossible/blog/b019e6d5-f576-4a04-9106-f0d73070e5f1
作者: daimo    時間: 2008-4-1 09:49

原帖由 peter236 於 2008-4-1 00:33 發表
All you guys should read this link. It is a very interesting article of the research that the writer had done to prove that the photo in question was indeed from the set of Andy Lau's movie "A World W ...


Didn't have time to read your link, but if someone tells me that pic is taken from the Space, then it must be some new advanced technology to take it at a 45 degree perspective.

作者: kipposhi    時間: 2008-4-1 10:19

原帖由 peter236 於 2008-3-31 23:53 發表


kipposhi, do you actually pay a fee to subscribe to websites like G2 Bulletin?


no
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-4-1 11:56

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作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-4-1 12:39

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-4-1 11:56 發表

阿蠢薯：

睇你自己呢幾句咪正正講晒點解我話港人無骨氣囉。你知唔知咩叫做富貴不能淫，貧賤不能移，威武不能屈呀？（我睇怕你都淨係識得咩叫做淫賤不能移架喇...）為左要乞大陸施捨果口飯，下下咪淨係識得買大陸怕，自我審查，將自己 ...


大家討論下, 唔駛咁 offensive 嗄?

你講既point 都好易理解.  你講得出咁既野, 會唔會因為你本身高薪厚職, 生活無憂呢?
我就覺得, 一般人, 特別响生活比較窮困既地方, 唔會好care政治囉. 最緊要係食得飽, 著得暖. 所以我都唔會覺得呢d人無骨氣.

lol... OT... sorry...
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-4-1 13:26

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作者: chunsh    時間: 2008-4-1 15:41

原帖由 SAZABI 於 2008-4-1 12:39 發表


大家討論下, 唔駛咁 offensive 嗄?

你講既point 都好易理解.  你講得出咁既野, 會唔會因為你本身高薪厚職, 生活無憂呢?
我就覺得, 一般人, 特別响生活比較窮困既地方, 唔會好care政治囉. 最緊要係食得飽, 著得暖. ...



its ok and thanks, SAZABI
honestly, I felt offended at the first second when I read that he called me 蠢薯 (hahha, ok I lied, I have been pissed of for about 10 secs LOL), but I forgive him.
why? since he brought me back the memory of my good old times while I was still in primary school. you know, we all did this kind of insulting/making "flower names" when we were kids....

he think I am "逢力必反", well, I think its just becos we have so much diff in political issues and opinions about Art, thats all.
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-4-1 16:12

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作者: maanmo    時間: 2008-4-2 12:15

western nations have been trying to break apart china  for the last 200 years
and the efforts continue

the instrument western media use to break up china  is the idea of democracy
what democracy means is any part of china is free to break away if  its local residents elect   to do so.
that means if  the residents of taiwan want to break away  that is their human rights
the same principle applies to Tibet

but this is not the principle with which china is built over thousands of years
the land of china belongs to all people of china
  the people who happen to live in one province of china  do not have the rights to
own that province completely . all chinese live in all provinces in spirit

the idea of China is , no group of people can vote to break away from china
if a vote is to be taken, then all chinese everywhere has the same right to vote

for example whether taiwan if part of china,  is an issue that all chinese has a say
no matter where they live
the idea of chinese citizenship is  one citizen owns along with all others , all of china
not just the province he lives in

  many western media do not recognize this principle
the vancouver sun, is the most familiar case to me.

  the solution to this anti china bias is  for china to register all foreign media and government on this issue.

" do you recognize this principle of china ? , all chinese own taiwan, and all chinese
own Tibet ? "

     these days you need passports to travel, in the passport  you note your nationality
    what is needed is  all  reporters from all news media
    must not only declare their nationality when visiting and reporting on china,
  they must also declare whether they recognize the principle of china
or the principle of democracy that can be used to break up china
作者: maanmo    時間: 2008-4-2 19:16

we must realize, china must launch a public relations Campaign of international scale
to preserve the integrity of china, to continue the work of revolution of 1911

it has been almost 100 years,the struggle will continue , save china , defend china, for the
benefits of all mankind
  if the world likes democracy, then democracy means the integrity of china is up to all chinese
one chinese one vote, regardless of what province, what racial group he belongs to,
because all of china belongs to him, that is democracy , 10 thousands years in the making

  what happened in Tibet was in the 1950, the english tried to engineer the separation of Tibet from china
i grew up in hongkong, this secret of history was not availble to me, but i learned some of it now..

. i say, no leader of any religion should use religion as a means to partition china

  now i realize, the chinese government has some valid fears of the British trying to engineer the
seperation of hongkong from china.
but of course , the chinese in hongkong  love the concept of one china, inseparable , even if
many bad rulers come and go.

why the hong kong chinese feel this way? actually one has to thank a man who is now buried in a cemetery
in burnaby, his comic books 財叔, educated many chinese to the concept of one china for all

[ 本帖最後由 maanmo 於 2008-4-2 19:25 編輯 ]
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-4-6 06:36

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