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標題: 一百萬人的故事 [打印本頁]

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-12 18:11 標題: 一百萬人的故事

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作者: pokii 時間: 2008-5-12 19:48

我覺得唔單只係香港....
好多繁榮的大城市背後....有好多人仲係好窮

希望我老了唔駛拾汽水罐同紙皮

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2008-5-12 22:59

I feel sad and upset after watching 2 app ..... Such a big contrast to the wealthy, high tech, high pace HK.

作者: news 時間: 2008-5-13 04:52

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-12 18:11 發表
6CYvReBeTu4

香港，一個 "國際都會"，但其實同赤貧既距離卻比紙更薄...

節目做左唔夠四分鐘，我聽完一個阿伯既訪問，個心好痛。點解有人可以無恥到話綜援會養懶人，點解高官可以一方面話增加生果金會為社會帶來長遠既結構性 ...

it does...just look at canada...welfare is important but when it gets to the point people start to rely on the welfare instead of having welfare as a support then the problem will begin

作者: RayRay 時間: 2008-5-13 08:33

唉 ! 太傷感, 無話說。心情平伏了再說!

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-13 08:56

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作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-13 09:25

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作者: cha_wan_mushi 時間: 2008-5-13 11:15

原帖由 news 於 13-5-2008 05:52 AM 發表

it does...just look at canada...welfare is important but when it gets to the point people start to rely on the welfare instead of having welfare as a support then the problem will begin

This is out of the topic.. just wanna say that
I heard that people on welfare have to submit a good percentage (dunno how much, if someone can verify) of their income to the government. so it's hard for families to get out of welfare, leaving individuals hopeless and unmotivated to work hard.
Of course there's also people who absolutely gave up on the first day.

anyway back to the topic..
hk is going through tough times.
30M.. I wonder where they're going to dig up that much.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2008-5-13 23:51

You know and I know how politics is like...what should be done is always not what will be done...this happens everywhere and in every corporation...so what are we small potato gonna do?

Power = money + fame

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-14 00:18

無可否認, 香港真係有好多窮人.
但係, 有窮人既地方唔代表唔係一片福地. 如果想找真正既福地, 不如去信下教丫? 信耶穌, 得永生. 天國係一個永遠既福地law.

窮人, 有佢地過活既方法. 窮人, 並唔代表佢地既生活唔開心. 小弟窮過, 細個既時間一家五口住百幾尺既廉租屋, 但係小弟過得好開心. (當然小弟未窮到冇錢去睇醫生) 每個人都為左生存而努力, 窮人要生存, 有錢人都要生存. 窮人都可以過得好快樂, 有錢人都可以過得好失落.

小弟覺得, 如果任何人發現身邊既朋友(老人家, 新移民都可以係朋友)需要幫忙, 大家不妨去幫下佢, 關心下佢. o係度怨政府係冇用架.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-14 00:36

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-14 00:56 發表
News兄，

先撇開加拿大既 welfare system 唔講，以香港既綜援制度，$2300幾一個人。當你一家三、四口住響天水圍，四千幾蚊住響新界，唔出市區，無病無痛都勉強頂得住，但一旦屋企有咩市就會即刻大檸樂。好喇，你話去搵工，想過海去中區做清潔，一個月搵 $4000 （其實應該無咁多），每個禮拜返六日，每日 "只係" 做12個鐘（其實耗多要做14個鐘）。淨係巴士來回轉幾程閑閑地三、四個鐘車，仲要一日踏成百蚊，你唔食，齋搭車都去左一半有多啦？出左去返工，咁屋企細路仔邊個睇住呢？

好喇，我唔去中區打工，最少都要出油尖旺掛？唔過海慳得幾多錢，幾多時間呢？好，我再返近D，去荃灣打工，但荃灣人工又會差D，即係最後條大數都係差唔多。

好喇，今次個細路病左，夜晚發燒。可以去邊處睇醫生呢？好對唔住，全個天水圍連半間醫院都無。想睇私家醫生？你發夢都無咁早。公營既夜診服務亦好似只係攪過少少 pilot project 之類。要去急証室，飛的最少都要去屯門。唔理得咁多喇，帶左個靚仔去睇醫生先啦。攪左成晚，第二日返唔到工，工頭打電話來話今日返唔到工就以後都唔使返來啦。算啦，睇掂左個細路好返D先啦。

以上既故事好 typical，香港每一個社工都可以隨口 up 九百幾個更慘既過案比你聽。香港唔少既窮人都來自國內，可能係新移民，又可能係內地妻兒申請到落來香港。人生路不熟，又俾人歧視，佢地可以做D咩呢？佢地又係咪大部份都想做懶人既呢？我唔覺得會係咁囉。

-力

力兄, 小弟非常欣賞果d 含辛茹苦, 一心想自力更生既人. 老實講, 呢班人想脫貧既可能性係極之低, 佢地唯有希望自己既仔女可以讀好d 書, 將來可以做一份好工, 到時先可以真真正正咁脫貧. 香港既福利制度係唔會比飽飯你食, 因為怕養慣一班懶人. 當人人都覺得唔駛做都有一定質素既生活, 咁就會有一d 人去偷懶.

新移民問題, 閣下有否曾經諗過既然想團聚, 點解唔一氣麻甩佬番大陸同家人團聚, 而係申請老婆仔女黎香港團聚呢? 好多人好憎呢班新移民, 覺得佢地浪費納稅人既錢. 其實, 佢地都想自力更生既, 但係又好似冇乜辦法去幫佢地. 佢地知識水平低, 唯有做一d 體力勞動工作, 賺辛苦錢, 先至叫做可以維拎一頭家. 如果當佢地發現有d 同鄉食綜媛既生活都好過佢, 咁佢做黎仲乜? 呢個係一個惡性循環...

不過諗諗下, 一日番工十四個鐘, 一個月都係賺四千幾蚊, 拎綜媛如果多過呢個數, 仲有人去做野架咩? 冇人做野, 老闆就只好加人工嗎? 好難喇, 因為仲有大把人冇祺格申請綜緩, 大把人爭住做十二蚊一個鐘既工...

加綜緩唔係辦法, 爭取設立最低工資好過啦.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-5-14 01:12

There are poor and rich in every country. I don't see HK is different and special lor. And every rich and poor has own story behind, that we might not able to understand all of them. If all rich people have to feed poor ones voluntarily, I would be happy to be a poor one la. Or if the government forces rich people to feed poor ones for no reason but just because "they are poor", don't you think rich people will bark back?

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-14 11:31

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作者: LOK 時間: 2008-5-14 12:21

It's not only in HK, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
If you have a good job, then you might only have "enough" money.  For an employee, the increase of gas, rice... everything... are way faster then the increase of your wage.  People can't just earn money by their "hands" anymore.
Think about it, how many hrs you could work for a day, how much got pay for an hr, very easy to calculate.  You may also able to calculate how much you could earn for your whole life until retired (might add average 2% increase for every year).
However, for the rich ppl, they use money to earn money.  It's not a simple calculation anymore, they might able to make double, triple... of their money in a very short period.

[ 本帖最後由 LOK 於 2008-5-14 12:31 編輯 ]

作者: LOK 時間: 2008-5-14 12:29

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-14 11:31 發表
麥莊莊，

香港既貧富懸殊問題越來越嚴重，而聽D社工講，依家好多時個問提係隔代貧窮，亦即係老竇老母窮，之後個仔都繼續窮。其實呢件事都唔難理解。就當個仔讀書都算勤力，成績中上，有足夠能力去讀大專課程（成績上）。但屋企住響天 ...

there will be other problems if they set the 最低工資. There is not a single solution that could solve all the problems. Some ppl might even lost their $4000/month job if the 最低工資 really happened.

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-5-14 12:36

Don't we have minimum wage here? Don't we still have poor people and jobless people?

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-14 12:49

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作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-14 13:08

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作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-14 17:17

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
香港既貧富懸殊問題越來越嚴重，而聽D社工講，依家好多時個問提係隔代貧窮，亦即係老竇老母窮，之後個仔都繼續窮。其實呢件事都唔難理解。就當個仔讀書都算勤力，成績中上，有足夠能力去讀大專課程（成績上）。但屋企住響天水圍，老竇老母又一把年紀了，使問你做仔既又點忍心自己跑去讀書，而繼續叫老竇老母拿綜援養家呢？

可能小弟不孝, 如果小弟係果個仔, 小弟一定會去讀書, 繼續拿綜緩. 一定full grant full loan, 唔駛錢讀書, 政府又有車船津貼. 上完堂之後就可以去市區幫人補習, 可以搵到少少錢架!

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
而 realistically，綜援又養唔養到家？你連買西裝既錢都無，又點去打社字樓工？屋企赤貧，又住得遠，又邊度有錢搭車出市區返工？結果又繼續留響天水圍附近，做D人工最低既工種，隔代都無辦法脫離貧窮。

綜援可以餓你唔死... 冇人叫你剩係食綜援, 梗係要出去市區搵下外快啦~ 補習唔係申報架! 小弟當年一個月起碼搵二三千蚊. 西裝, 五百蚊一套都有. 天水圍唔係好遠, 出中環唔駛一個鐘架.

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
最低工資同最高工時呢兩樣野，你估無人講咩？李卓仁阿仁哥講左九十幾世啦。泛民亦大把議員有提案同支持，但因為立法會既制度問題，其實成個立法會只能提出問題，而無能力去逼政府做任何野。而響政府同大企業私商受受之下，大財團向政府施壓，政府又點會唔聽？

咁又係呀, 寧得罪窮人, 莫得罪富商...

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
呢D全部都係社會問題，但社會問題係須要政府有合適既對策來應付。而政府一值係咁 cut 社福界既 budget，又向大財團同有錢人傾斜同作利益輸送，試問問題又點會解決到？

社福界d 錢去哂教育同醫療果邊...

作者: soli 時間: 2008-5-14 19:03

原來力哥係傾向共產主義既~

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-14 19:49

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作者: 布小熊 時間: 2008-5-14 20:15

I ended up watching all 5 on you tube and I felt deeply sadden by how HK government and even some people in HK not being helpful to these less lucky group. Out of the different groups, I think the elderly group really do need some help. A LOT of them worked hard when they were young. They contribute to HK's manufacturing and construction industry. They helped build HK. But when they are old who is going to help them? The "fruit money" and old ppl money is so little and price of food is going up like crazy in HK. They are not the lazy group. They just don't have children to support them. Some of them don't even have families. One of the elderly spent most of his saving for his/his wife's medical bill. .... anyway.... I really think it's unfair for HK to dump them like this.
Here at least the government do take care of the elderly.

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2008-5-14 20:17

Glad that some HK ppl agree with helping the needy.

加生果金訂最低工資
調查指各階層都贊成
2008年5月15日

【明報專訊】中大一項調查發現，增加長者生果金額及盡快立法制訂最低工資，成為社會各階層對紓緩通脹壓力的共識。有學者提醒政府，雖然市民大多認同物價上升及通漲問題由外來因素所致，但隨覑立法會選舉臨近，社會大眾對通脹注視程度上升，市民對通脹不滿有可能變成民怨。

中大亞太研究所於本月5至7日進行調查，訪問了1018名成年市民，結果發現近85%受訪者贊成增加長者生果金額，75%支持盡快制訂最低工資，而且支持聲音來自社會不同階層(見表)。研究所副所長王家英表示，任何建議取得過半市民支持，政府都應正視。

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-5-14 20:47

Poor people without ambition always have too many excuse and lead to even poorer situation. There truly are poor people worked to a success.

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-14 21:02

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作者: 大C姐 時間: 2008-5-14 21:23

我發現好多人留言但係有好多人都唔好了解關懷呢一百萬人。

問題唔係呢班人唔做野問政府囉錢唔夠洗﹐係想做可能無人請(年紀﹐社會徑濟問題)﹐就算做足7日﹐D人工都係唔夠生活﹐而且手停口停﹐做少一日工都唔夠生活費。最慘係有D家庭係連食都無啖好食﹐D細路又無人教﹐想脫貧都真係唔易。

首先最起碼係有food bank同一D免費繕食俾呢D家庭(尤其細路同老人家)。有啖好食其實對健康同工作能力有好直接影響。

第二度地方都發生同樣問題唔代表呢個唔係問題。你哋D蛋散唔係切身處地就好輕易講句﹕車~好多地方都係甘架啦。問題係﹐一個城市﹐無理由容許一班肯做肯挨既社會支柱既一份子落後到無飯開。而家唔係打仗唔係大飢荒﹐社會進步有錢賺無理由容許社會一部份既人受難﹗

-- 大發人心大C姐

[ 本帖最後由大C姐於 2008-5-14 21:36 編輯 ]

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-14 21:55

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 11:49 發表

我響荃灣坐小巴，再轉地鐵出中環都要成粒鐘啦。你天水圍響元朗再入D，仲要搭巴士同轉車，無兩粒鐘點過海呀？

另外，讀得下書就話嗟，唔係咁讀得果一群先至係最多人。就算你讀完預科，又可以做D乜？問政府借錢去讀副學士？上左佢當既 ...

天水圍出中環梗係搭巴士啦! 一程車一定唔駛一個鐘~ 大欖隧道一出就三號幹線跟住就到西隧直出上環.
車費係貴d, 要廿蚊一程. 但係中環番工既話應該afford得到.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-14 21:59

原帖由 大C姐 於 2008-5-15 13:23 發表
我發現好多人留言但係有好多人都唔好了解關懷呢一百萬人。

問題唔係呢班人唔做野問政府囉錢唔夠洗﹐係想做可能無人請(年紀﹐社會徑濟問題)﹐就算做足7日﹐D人工都係唔夠生活﹐而且手停口停﹐做少一日工都唔夠生活費。最慘係有D家庭係連食都無啖好食﹐D細路又無人教﹐想脫貧都真係唔易。

首先最起碼係有food bank同一D免費繕食俾呢D家庭(尤其細路同老人家)。有啖好食其實對健康同工作能力有好直接影響。

第二度地方都發生同樣問題唔代表呢個唔係問題。你哋D蛋散唔係切身處地就好輕易講句﹕車~好多地方都係甘架啦。問題係﹐一個城市﹐無理由容許一班肯做肯挨既社會支柱既一份子落後到無飯開。而家唔係打仗唔係大飢荒﹐社會進步有錢賺無理由容許社會一部份既人受難﹗

-- 大發人心大C姐

小弟覺得香港既市民應該做多d 野, 多d 關心身邊既人. 不過, 我地應該點樣關心佢地先係最有用呢?

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-5-14 22:49

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-14 21:02 發表

鹹蛋超人，你咁講我會覺得你完全唔了解咩叫做赤貧，而講D咁既說話，亦好唔付責任。

長期既貧困係會不停咁磨滅人既鬥志。如果你係第一集裡果個女人，一個星期返七日工，一至五返 12個鐘，周末返 16個鐘，每日早餐食一個麵包，午餐食 ...

Your originally posted video clip is one thing (elderly)...... but weren't you discussing younger people to work in central or something in general cases? No point to discuss extreme cases, which seems like nobody can help bor.

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-14 23:47

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作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-5-15 00:20

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-14 23:47 發表

鹹蛋超人，

5集裡面，第一集係 overview，第二集講女人，第三集講老人家，第四集講小朋友，第五集講男人。無錯，節目裡面無認真講過年輕人既貧窮問題，但佢地要面對既困難，你唔多唔少都可以從第 4集裡面想像得到。小學生升中，要面對 ...

Just wanna let you know, I am not feeling no mercy to those poor people (and actually I'm not a rich one). But as the video mentioned, there is 1 of every 5 people who is poor! (doesn't mean the 4 out of 5 are super rich). I believe most rich people's money were not felt from the sky above, they all had paid for their price behind. Even those poor people also have touching stories behind, tell me how can you make the 80% richer people to feed the 20% poorer ones unconditionally? And think about this, if you are one of the rich people, and the government wants to charge high tax on you all because of to use your money to feed those poor, what would you feel?

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 01:17

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 15:47 發表
5集裡面，第一集係 overview，第二集講女人，第三集講老人家，第四集講小朋友，第五集講男人。無錯，節目裡面無認真講過年輕人既貧窮問題，但佢地要面對既困難，你唔多唔少都可以從第 4集裡面想像得到。小學生升中，要面對沉重既課內外活動費用。中學生想去升學，四年之後要背負起兩萬幾、三萬銀既債務。佢地，又係咪你所講既 extreme case 呢？

小弟讀完三年大學之後, 共欠政府八萬幾蚊~ (當然係港紙啦)
仲記得讀完分開五年還, 每三個月四千幾蚊既日子. 冇香港政府既支持, 小弟一定冇能力讀大學.
小弟覺得, 年輕既一代, 只要有幹勁, 有抱負, 有負出, 就好有機會成功! 呢個就係小弟覺得香港係一個福地既原因~ 呢個世界上有好多地方, 根本你點努力都冇辦法出頭既.

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 15:47 發表
有唔少既赤貧人士，佢地以前係有份建設香港既中流砥柱。無錯，佢地可能一直係社會既機層人士，但咁並唔可以抹殺佢地對社會所作出過既供獻。好喇，依家佢地老喇，我地社會係咪用貧窮去答謝佢地以前所付出既呢？

如果佢地曾經係香港既中流砥柱, 佢地點會係赤貧? 87, 97 炒輸哂股票? 後生賭馬輸哂副身家? 小弟覺得壯年既時候係要plan下自己老左點算. 如果明知老左有人養, 小弟都會趁段生駛哂d 錢, 老左冇錢都有人照顧. 但係呢個世界又點會有咁著數既事呢?

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-15 08:19

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作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-15 09:28

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作者: 布小熊 時間: 2008-5-15 09:36

雖然用中流砥柱來形容佢地以前既身份唔係錯，但實用基層人士或者草根階層來形呢班人就更加合適。我唔敢話赤貧人士裡面無人爛賭定係點，但普遍既基層人士／草根階層既生活只能夠餐飲餐食餐餐清。唔好話佢地，就算小弟自己，勉強都算係中產，但每個月儲到既錢咪又係得果雞碎咁多？儲唔到錢，又係咪完全係佢地既錯？

You have to notice that HK went thro a very drastic change... almost ALL manufactory disappear in the early 90s. I believe a lot of the elderly back then lost their jobs (they were silked workers back then.... but their silk were no longer needed). And think about wages back then when these elderly were young. ppl earn less than $100 HK a month! How much can you save up for their retirement? Unless they have kids that are capable to support them, it's hard for them to save enough for their retirement.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2008-5-15 10:25

Elderly skilled workers were making $100 per month? When was this, in the 50's or 60's????

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2008-5-15 10:30

yes 50 or 60's... that was in the interview. That was the old man's golden years.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2008-5-15 15:20

原帖由 mcjohnjohn 於 2008-5-15 01:17 發表

小弟讀完三年大學之後, 共欠政府八萬幾蚊~ (當然係港紙啦)
仲記得讀完分開五年還, 每三個月四千幾蚊既日子. 冇香港政府既支持, 小弟一定冇能力讀大學.
小弟覺得, 年輕既一代, 只要有幹勁, 有抱負, 有負出, 就好有機 ...

QUOTE 錯。

[ 本帖最後由大C姐於 2008-5-15 15:22 編輯 ]

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2008-5-15 15:23 標題: 回復 32# 的帖子

點解赤貧﹖所為一百萬人的故事﹐每個人都有因由﹐唔係一定炒樓炒股票或者後生唔勞力所致。所以你甘講好唔負責任﹗有D人做地盤﹐正常收入但係突然外盤無得開工﹐每個月靠老本養家﹐一般家庭點會有甘多積蓄﹖又有D老人家為洗晒D錢落醫療手術費﹐亦有D女人俾男人扼爭人一身債。你可以話呢班蛋散唔好彩﹐但係呢D遭遇係好平常唔代表唔需要人哋幫助/關懷。你呢D心態就正正係D囉綜援既受訪者話俾人歧視。

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 17:23

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-16 00:19 發表

我呢度講錯左，係每年要兩、三萬學費，再加兩、三萬生活費，對一個貧窮學生來講，呢全部都要問政府借，綜援唔會幫手。四年大學加埋就變左欠落 24萬銀既債務，而且仲要再加息，而息口仲要由借錢果日開始計。我地 Canada Student Lo ...

都係錯. grant係唔駛還既, 如果full grant就夠cover哂所有學費(小弟試過full grant). 至於loan, full loan 每年大約比40000蚊, 三年都係12萬. 分五年還, 每期大約還7千蚊左右啦. 借錢就梗係要利息架啦, 有乜野問題? 小弟記得年息係兩厘半至四厘, 都唔係好高息.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 17:33

原帖由 大C姐 於 2008-5-16 07:23 發表
點解赤貧﹖所為一百萬人的故事﹐每個人都有因由﹐唔係一定炒樓炒股票或者後生唔勞力所致。所以你甘講好唔負責任﹗有D人做地盤﹐正常收入但係突然外盤無得開工﹐每個月靠老本養家﹐一般家庭點會有甘多積蓄﹖又有D老人家為洗晒D錢落醫 ...

大c姐, 係人都知每個人都有因由, 亦唔係一定炒樓炒股票或者後生唔努力所致, 我只係舉個例, 妳咁就話我好唔負責任, 我就覺得妳就真係好唔負責任law~
地盤冇工開, 係唔係就可以o係度坐以代斃丫? 我呀爸o係我讀小學既時候因為意外而喪失工作能力, 咁係唔係一家攬埋一齊等死丫? 結果, 我媽媽去搵一份好辛苦, 好嫌惡, 但賺多d 錢既工, 而我就o係屋企摺下盒仔, chi下膠水, 去做外快搵錢.

小弟覺得, 人係應該自己解決問題既! 關懷當然好, 雪中送炭當然更好. 但小弟覺得呢d 野並唔係必然既. 始終都係要靠自己解決問題.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 17:36

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-16 01:28 發表
麥莊莊，其實你有無睇段片架式？第四集裡面既小男生同大專女生，佢地有無幹勁，有無負出呢？但佢地要行既路，卻一定比絕大部份既人艱辛。我好希望佢地可以能夠成功脫貧，但講真，如果現行政策同環景都無大改變既話，佢地繼續貧窮既機會絕對高過能夠成功脫貧既機會。

信我, 香港係一個福地, 只要佢地肯努力同揀arm自己條路既話, 佢地既前路一定有好多機會. 到時就睇下佢地把唔把握到果d 機會啦!
只要有夢想, 凡事可成真.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 17:38

原帖由 布小熊 於 2008-5-16 01:36 發表

You have to notice that HK went thro a very drastic change... almost ALL manufactory disappear in the early 90s. I believe a lot of the elderly back then lost their jobs (they were silked workers bac ...

當年一層樓只係需要幾千蚊.

作者: LOK 時間: 2008-5-15 18:15

原帖由 mcjohnjohn 於 2008-5-15 17:33 發表

大c姐, 係人都知每個人都有因由, 亦唔係一定炒樓炒股票或者後生唔努力所致, 我只係舉個例, 妳咁就話我好唔負責任, 我就覺得妳就真係好唔負責任law~
地盤冇工開, 係唔係就可以o係度坐以代斃丫? 我呀爸o係我讀小學既 ...

You must not understand that HK is not the same anymore, you can't "o係屋企摺下盒仔, chi下膠水, 去做外快搵錢" anymore. So if you are old, not educated, even you willing to work, there is no jobs for you.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 18:27

原帖由 LOK 於 2008-5-16 10:15 發表

You must not understand that HK is not the same anymore, you can't "o係屋企摺下盒仔, chi下膠水, 去做外快搵錢" anymore. So if you are old, not educated, even you willing to work, there is no jobs for ...

Lok, I totally agree with you, there is no job for them.
Therefore, if you are old and poor enough, why not start to apply for elderly hostels (those government operated)? it is a good place for living.
(Although it requires several years of application)

[ 本帖最後由 mcjohnjohn 於 2008-5-16 10:28 編輯 ]

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2008-5-15 19:38

只要有夢想, 凡事可成真.

呢句真係天真。而家唔係要鬥慘鬥窮。鬼唔知內地或非洲有更多比香港慘既例子咩﹗

但係我想講(又或者個節目既重點)係有好多人﹐真係做足一個禮拜7日都係得2千幾3千蚊人工。莫講話無得病﹐連仔女都無時間湊。呢D人都係做一D社會上需要以又正當既職業。係一個社會健全既大都市(香港)﹐點可能容許一班眼見日日做十幾個鐘既清潔工人(或其他)連買飯食都有困難。著眼點係﹐香港要談討人力職幾錢﹐要set一個有尊嚴既人工。

好對唔住﹐而家唔係幾十年前你阿媽果代有得穿膠花。而家連去執紙皮﹐都有老人家為左爭紙皮大打出手。你既樂觀我好欣嘗﹐你既出身我都好感同身受﹐但係同今時今日赤貧完全無關。

-- 同情一班水深火熱既朋有既大C姐

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 20:08

原帖由 大C姐 於 2008-5-16 11:38 發表
只要有夢想, 凡事可成真.

呢句真係天真。而家唔係要鬥慘鬥窮。鬼唔知內地或非洲有更多比香港慘既例子咩﹗

但係我想講(又或者個節目既重點)係有好多人﹐真係做足一個禮拜7日都係得2千幾3千蚊人工。莫講話無得病﹐連仔女都無時間湊。呢D人都係做一D社會上需要以又正當既職業。係一個社會健全既大都市(香港)﹐點可能容許一班眼見日日做十幾個鐘既清潔工人(或其他)連買飯食都有困難。著眼點係﹐香港要談討人力職幾錢﹐要set一個有尊嚴既人工。

好對唔住﹐而家唔係幾十年前你阿媽果代有得穿膠花。而家連去執紙皮﹐都有老人家為左爭紙皮大打出手。你既樂觀我好欣嘗﹐你既出身我都好感同身受﹐但係同今時今日赤貧完全無關。

-- 同情一班水深火熱既朋有既大C姐

好有同情心既大c姐, 同情係冇用既, 不如諗下有乜野辦法幫到手好過啦. 不如下次約埋一齊去派米同d 日用品比d 低收入家庭丫?
小弟一向都支持設立最低工資, 只係唔贊成大幅加綜緩同生果金.
後生仔, 要努力工作, 為自己, 為家人去打拼! 仲要唔好唔記得要照顧父母呢~

最後小弟想講, 我覺得自己好幸運, 好細個已經知道屋企人搵錢辛苦, 大個左就知道要好好報答佢地. 我一d 都唔覺得需要任何人既同情, 我只係想講任何人都要為自己既生存而努力. 幾十年前又好, 幾十年後都好, 無論環境點唔同, 人人都要為自己, 為家人去打拼既~

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-15 21:00

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作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2008-5-15 21:23

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-16 13:00 發表
綜援 -- $2300
生果金 -- $700
一個月總收入 -- $3000
我想問，夠生活嗎？

如果住既地方係政府既, 就應該夠.

老人家每個月加多 $300 生果金，條大數一年政府都只係使多 $40 $50億，你果頭減大財團D稅都減左成 $200億啦。

如果今年加左將來可以減番而又冇民怨既話, 我贊成今年加$150蚊生果金.
香港既老人家只會越黎越多, 生果金呢筆數就只會越來越多. 政府要未雨綢繆.

老人家點都會有D病痛，病左要睇醫生。政府既政策係每位老人家派好幾張每張 $50既 coupon，用來睇私家醫生，我果陣聽完真係爆晒粗。人地有錢既話就唔 @#*)$)@(#) 使去輪街証；有錢既話亦唔希罕你果 $50皮啦。

老人家多數睇專科, 冇錢就梗係去睇政府啦, 綜援人士一個仙都唔駛. 果d 唔駛拎綜援既老人家, 佢屋企人都應該要照顧下佢架woh, 唔係下下都靠哂阿公掛.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2008-5-16 12:54 標題: 回復 49# 的帖子

無屋企人照顧咪食得屎﹖

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-5-16 13:06

Then just 生果金 and 綜援 might not be the best thing for the homeless and family-less elderly, government should provide free housing with meals and nursing facilities for them tim la! (no kidding)

作者: soli 時間: 2008-5-16 14:02

福利多如加拿大﹐訓街既同執垃圾開檔黎賣既人依然存在﹐貧富懸殊一樣無解決﹐而且仲不斷惡化。
o甘既情況下﹐阿力哥響加拿大投票卻投最右既保守黨而唔投新民主黨﹐又反對各工會罷工﹐支持政府減稅。種種舉動﹐令人懷疑阿力哥批評香港貧富懸殊其實只係反對港府既籍口之一。

香港有好多人死都唔肯領綜援﹐寧願打2-3千蚊份工養家﹐我認為呢個先係最大問題﹐唔先解決呢個問題﹐綜援俾多多都都無用﹐在職貧窮既照樣窮﹐只係益左D真正懶人。
呢十幾萬不肯領綜援人士/家庭直接地拉低左基層職位工資﹐惡性循環﹐亦令政府難以預測潛在綜援開支﹐無法大膽調高綜援金額。
但主張叫人領綜援可以話資本主義社會既禁忌﹐就算係社民連班顛狗都唔敢公開鼓勵人辭工領綜援﹐真係無奈呀~

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-16 14:41

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作者: soli 時間: 2008-5-16 15:21

我覺得我唔係貽笑大方o個個窩~

福利再多都一樣有上面所講既問題﹐即係話問題唔一定係響錢個方面﹐死蠢~
無錢會有問題﹐但派多左錢又會有新既問題出現﹐D窮人照樣要訓街執垃圾賣。
而加拿大貧富懸殊係不斷惡化﹐保守黨無cut福利係因為政治壓力﹐但要保守黨傾向窮人就無可能。如果你真係o真心想降低貧富差距﹐就一定唔會選保守黨。所以話你其實只係一個偽君子而已。
唔領綜援好大程度係因為社會價值觀既關係﹐領綜援既人常被歧視﹐要靠宣傳改變人民想法﹐但香港無政黨敢出黎勸在職貧窮人士領綜援﹐政府自然樂得俾少D錢﹐所以我話班癲狗就係無出色。

[ 本帖最後由 soli 於 2008-5-16 15:31 編輯 ]

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-16 17:52

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作者: Guy 時間: 2008-5-16 18:38

希望我老了唔駛拾汽水罐同紙皮

thinking the same thing

should start work hard and save a lot more money

作者: soli 時間: 2008-5-16 20:36

條片裡面有領綜援既長者﹐其實係咪真係有需要執垃圾賣維生呢? 我睇未必。
試想下一個人勞動半生﹐人到老年﹐無兒無女﹐無工作無閒錢娛樂消費﹐如果唔找些事黎做﹐好可能會顛架。
依我睇片段裡面既長者﹐執垃圾賣都只係過下日神﹐打發時間﹐又或者用黎證明自己仍然有賺錢能力而已。賣一晚垃圾都買唔到個飯盒﹐真係靠賣垃圾就真係死得囉。
加拿大福利好﹐相比起香港﹐領綜援既都會有閒錢花﹐無所事事但有錢洗﹐會用黎做乜呢? 睇下溫東就知道﹐一旦染上酒隱毒隱賭隱﹐就萬劫不復﹐最後咪又要訓街乞食執垃圾賣。
所以我認為﹐一味增加綜援生果金未必幫到老人家﹐好似加拿大o甘開設多D俾老人長駐活動既地方﹐俾D老人家響裡面捉下棋打下麻雀耍下太極﹐加上茶點召待﹐o甘比起派錢更幫助到老人家吧~
講到貧富懸殊問題﹐其實貧富懸殊未必係壞事﹐最緊要係睇點樣貧法﹐因為貧富係相對關係。北韓全民皆窮﹐又或新中國成立初期﹐堅尼系數接近零﹐又代表D乜呢?
香港貧富懸殊嚴重但卻未貧到無飯食無醫療無書讀(如果肯領綜援)既境況﹐所以其實還可接受。
其實好多人都知道阿力係社民連地下會員架啦﹐隔離post有人話阿力想做溫哥話陶傑﹐其實阿力哥係想做溫哥話顛狗至o岩﹐一個完完全全既反對派嘛~

但就算係顛狗﹐都唔敢公然叫人領綜援﹐思想仍停留晌舊框框。
上個post阿力睇錯野﹐即刻發晒矛o甘否認社民連叫人領綜援。如果社民連敢上街反低工資﹐挺領綜援﹐我就話佢地好野~

[ 本帖最後由 soli 於 2008-5-16 20:58 編輯 ]

作者: RayRay 時間: 2008-5-16 21:16

我是過路的人, 看完唔敢 "嗒傘" Bye bye

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-16 22:31

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作者: soli 時間: 2008-5-16 22:48

頂﹐剛剛睇左第二集﹐個阿媽一個禮拜返92個鐘都只係賺四千幾﹐同領單親家庭綜援金額一樣o甘濟。我睇到尾但吳君如竟然無問“點解唔領綜援”。就算個阿媽未住夠7年無得領﹐個仔都可以領到2千蚊。o甘樣死捱其實係害左自己同個仔~

作者: RayRay 時間: 2008-5-18 02:24

鄺美雲咋日在电台閒談, 認為片中主角所述不是事實全部。導演只說出X倩一面,她對幫助片中主角有保留。

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-5-18 10:38

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作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-5-18 18:47

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-18 10:38 發表

唔係事實既全部，但係有虛假既成份嗎？個阿媽真係一個禮拜唔使返九十幾個鐘頭工？阿仔真係有錢去參加課內外外活動？阿伯份綜援真係夠一個月使？！

佢對幫助片中既主角有保留，咁即係咩意思？我地捐錢去中國鎮災，夠知道實有唔少無良 ...

Only if you truly know the truth behind. How can you have such a comment? Maybe she really knows more than you? And after all, one can feel more mercy but one can feel less mercy on this kind of case. If you donate $100 to them, you can't say someone donates $10 is wrong la.

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