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標題: VISA Chip & PIN Technology [打印本頁]

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 12:27 標題: VISA Chip & PIN Technology

Visa 最近推出 Chip & Pin Technology﹐ 信中話對我們比較有保障窩。。。

我就看不出保障在哪兒

我用開的卡不嬲都有 CHIP 的﹐我覺得 CHIP + 簽名已經好好﹐因為無咩人冒得到我的簽名﹐若是商戶不對簽名該是他們負責損失才對。。。

要在別人面前按密碼已使密碼給人看見的機會增多﹐何況人家若窺見你的密碼﹐馬上隨後拿了你的信用卡去拿錢﹐損失咪仲大﹖我張卡一向不 SET 密碼的﹐我當然知道 DEFRAULT 左同 DEBIT CARD 一樣 (若你同時擁有銀行戶口)﹐但起碼不需要時時在人面前按﹐減低被人看見的風險。。。

我不明白保障了甚麼﹐有人知道嗎﹖

我看是保障 VISA 自己多一點吧﹖

加拿大商戶從不對簽名的﹐我覺得這是商戶需要負的責任﹐若現在有了 PIN 改為不需要簽名﹐將來被盜用信用卡就水洗都唔清﹐好難拗得甩﹐我考慮緊取消呢張卡了。。。

大家呢﹖覺得呢個 Technology 係好定壞呢﹖

作者: totori 時間: 2009-2-18 12:36

I agree with you coz now the responsibility is passed to the customer. Also the mastercard technology, Quick Swipe thing, that does not require to sign or enter pin is even more ridiculous. Although there is a $50 limit but still it's a hazzle to report if a thief got your card and keep doing $50 transaction...

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 13:31

最近先有個朋友中了招﹐她給人偷銀包﹐半小時內報案﹐這人試她密碼試了好多次 (去每部機試兩次﹐共試了十幾次)﹐半小時內已取了幾百蚊。。。唔好信甚麼 $50 責任﹐呢個只係話你報左警 (或最少已報失)之後的責任﹐報之前則是你的責任。。。我朋友便損失了數百元了﹐真無辜

。。。因她比偷後半小時才發覺。。。

以前有朋友被偷二十幾小時才知自己失去錢包添﹐他更慘。。。唔見幾萬港元。。。

若開始這樣﹐我最怕D賊脅持我們去提款機由 VISA 取錢﹐銀行戶口都有上限﹐ VISA 好似係無的﹐到時就慘了﹐又或者﹐像我前面說的例子﹐他偷看了密碼﹐偷卡﹐馬上取錢﹐我們就損失慘重了。。。

作者: ricrick 時間: 2009-2-18 13:41

無得避，e家全部新card都有chip，最麻煩就係去食野碌卡要起身出去打pin

作者: ricrick 時間: 2009-2-18 13:50

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2009-2-18 14:31 發表
最近先有個朋友中了招﹐她給人偷銀包﹐半小時內報案﹐這人試她密碼試了好多次 (去每部機試兩次﹐共試了十幾次)﹐半小時內已取了幾百蚊。。。唔好信甚麼 $50 責任﹐呢個只係話你報左警 (或最少已報失)之後的責任﹐報之前則是你的責 ...

所以吾好set個limit甘高，同埋好多時card center 都好醒，見到有咩異樣會立刻打比你然後block左張card
我試過幾次買貴野都即刻打黎問

如果係打劫，好多時多可以claim得返

作者: ricrick 時間: 2009-2-18 13:57

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2009-2-18 14:31 發表
銀行戶口都有上限﹐ VISA 好似係無的

嘩！小王子小姐果然係皇族，有無limit既credit card

作者: tofu 時間: 2009-2-18 14:26

"最近先有個朋友中了招﹐她給人偷銀包﹐半小時內報案﹐這人試她密碼試了好多次 (去每部機試兩次﹐共試了十幾次)﹐半小時內已取了幾百蚊。。。唔好信甚麼 $50 責任﹐呢個只係話你報左警 (或最少已報失)之後的責任﹐報之前則是你的責 ..."

hm......as i know, they can only try your pin for three times in total(doesn't has to be the same machine or same day), then the system will block your account. at least debit/visa cards from canadian bank are like that.

of course the new pin system is try to protect the card center la, but i believe they try to eliminate those people who handover their cards to their friends/children.

作者: siumaibb 時間: 2009-2-18 14:33

Who about online purchase??

作者: B仔 時間: 2009-2-18 14:37

簽卡要按密碼，咁不如用DEBIT好過。。。只係冇得草分。

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-2-18 14:40

Which visa has this pin and chip thing? I don't like it too...

作者: noa 時間: 2009-2-18 14:41

"呢個只係話你報左警 (或最少已報失)之後的責任﹐報之前則是你的責任"

係?我個次比人偷卡, 有條數係報警前, 但card centre 都話條數我吾使負責...
但如果報左警張card 都即刻(almost...)比card centre cut左, 錄都錄吾到使乜佢地負責? .

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 14:42

原帖由 fibbi 於 2009-2-18 15:40 發表
Which visa has this pin and chip thing? I don't like it too...

here:
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/RBC: ... rds/chip/index.html

I think very soon all visa will be the same

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 14:44

原帖由 noa 於 2009-2-18 15:41 發表
"呢個只係話你報左警 (或最少已報失)之後的責任﹐報之前則是你的責任"

係?我個次比人偷卡, 有條數係報警前, 但card centre 都話條數我吾使負責...
但如果報左警張card 都即刻(almost...)比card centre cut左, 錄都錄 ...

唔知呢﹐可能按個別情況。。。你那次是多少錢﹖

作者: noa 時間: 2009-2-18 14:45

原帖由 ricrick 於 2009-2-18 14:50 發表

所以吾好set個limit甘高，同埋好多時card center 都好醒，見到有咩異樣會立刻打比你然後block左張card
我試過幾次買貴野都即刻打黎問

如果係打劫，好多時多可以claim得返 ...

但佢地好鐘意久不久加你limit...

作者: noa 時間: 2009-2-18 14:55

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2009-2-18 15:44 發表

唔知呢﹐可能按個別情況。。。你那次是多少錢﹖

只不過是幾舊水~~
加塊chip無甘容易比人dup張假卡出黎o麻~~

作者: Toppy 時間: 2009-2-18 15:04

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作者: ricrick 時間: 2009-2-18 15:09

原帖由 noa 於 2009-2-18 15:45 發表

但佢地好鐘意久不久加你limit...

但你可以叫佢地減你limit加麻

作者: ricrick 時間: 2009-2-18 15:12

原帖由 fibbi 於 2009-2-18 15:40 發表
Which visa has this pin and chip thing? I don't like it too...

當你張舊卡expired，你就會收到張有chip架喇

作者: noa 時間: 2009-2-18 15:14

原帖由 ricrick 於 2009-2-18 16:09 發表

但你可以叫佢地減你limit加麻

叫過, 過一排又加, 又或者輪到第二張想加...一兩次之後我已經覺得好麻煩~~

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 15:20

原帖由 noa 於 2009-2-18 16:14 發表

叫過, 過一排又加, 又或者輪到第二張想加...一兩次之後我已經覺得好麻煩~~

係喇﹐VISA 的 SECURITY DEPT 當晒個個都係賊﹐問野問到人好討厭。。。

有次我只係打去叫他們登記低資料﹐因為我就快去旅行﹐唔想將卡碌唔到﹐足足響電話搞左半個鐘﹐問呢問路﹐煩到想收線﹐語氣又差﹐又要等﹐仲有﹐他問 SIN 唔好答第樣﹐因為我的 SIN不在身旁﹐我話﹐你問過第樣喇﹐無卡響身﹐問乜都答得出除了 SIN﹐但他們死不妥協﹐唯有死死地氣去找張卡出黎

我發覺用 EMAIL 同他們聯絡最好﹐不過我用 RBC 咋﹐唔知其他銀行有無呢個服務。。。

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2009-2-18 15:21

原帖由 noa 於 2009-2-18 14:55 發表

只不過是幾舊水~~
加塊chip無甘容易比人dup張假卡出黎o麻~~

Exactly, that's the only purpose of the chip. It is not to make it so that you have to put in or password or anything. They can easily make cards that doesn't have a chip that can still allow for password authentication (for example, your debit card). The chip is to make it so that you can't make a fake card without access to the codes embedded in the chip. Not going to elaborate, but those codes inside the chip is made so that it can't be changed and it can't be read by anything. It is just there to accomodate for probably a challenge/response type of authentication system.

The password system is just a parallel effort. It allows a more concrete way to authenticate the card user. Really, do you think signature check was any useful at all? Nobody ever checks my signature, and signature checking is ambiguous anyways. I'd rather put in a PIN so that my card can't be used when stolen.

[ 本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2009-2-18 15:24 編輯 ]

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 15:22

原帖由 noa 於 2009-2-18 15:55 發表

只不過是幾舊水~~
加塊chip無甘容易比人dup張假卡出黎o麻~~

add chip I appreciate, but not PIN lor

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2009-2-18 15:27

the only thing i don't like about the chip is the need to go to the cash register after fine dining. it's so... non-fine dine at the end.

作者: tofu 時間: 2009-2-18 15:37

if you don't want the auto limit increase, you can tell them not to automatic increase your limit at all.
they increased my limit couple yrs ago, so i asked them reduced my limit back to original and not to automatically increase my limit again.  so far, they haven't increase my limit again.

for online purchase, they introduced a system called "Verified by Visa".  You either answer few questions each time when you do online purchase or register your card and enter your PIN la.
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/cards/vbv/index.html

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-2-18 15:45

Ai Ya...I use RBC card as well....And I don't like those PIN either... Guess I can't avoid it.
Yeah talking about visa limit. It just keeps going up out of no reason. There is one time I call card center (forgot the reason). The staff asked some "security" questions and one of them is how much is my visa limit. I told him how can I know when it keeps going up without my approval.
But in Van people simply don't check signature. IMO those stores should really be responsible for any fraud card lor...In HK every store (at least 99% of the store I have been to) all check signature.

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 15:49

原帖由 fibbi 於 2009-2-18 16:45 發表
Ai Ya...I use RBC card as well....And I don't like those PIN either... Guess I can't avoid it.
Yeah talking about visa limit. It just keeps going up out of no reason. There is one time I call card cen ...

not out of no reason, there are 2 reasons:

1) they have to meet their goals (they have a goal to increase ppl's limit, that's true)
2) you have good credit...

only ppl have bad credit won't be increased their limit, try it yourself, if you are paying min every month for a year, or even skip some payments, they won't increase yours

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-2-18 16:04

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2009-2-18 16:49 發表
not out of no reason, there are 2 reasons:

1) they have to meet their goals (they have a goal to increase ppl's limit, that's true)
2) you have good credit...

only ppl have bad credit won't be incr ...

But they increase my card limit to more than what I have in the account wor...that doesn't make sense.
(not that my card limit is a lot, I just don't put that much $ in that account la)

作者: noa 時間: 2009-2-18 16:09

原帖由 fibbi 於 2009-2-18 16:45 發表
But in Van people simply don't check signature. IMO those stores should really be responsible for any fraud card lor...In HK every store (at least 99% of the store I have been to) all check signature.

可能Check簽名作用已經不大, 因為根本成張卡都係dup出黎, 甘上面個簽名都係作出黎....
甚至可能連張ID都係假...

[ 本帖最後由 noa 於 2009-2-18 17:10 編輯 ]

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 16:24

原帖由 fibbi 於 2009-2-18 17:04 發表

But they increase my card limit to more than what I have in the account wor...that doesn't make sense.
(not that my card limit is a lot, I just don't put that much $ in that account la)

they have a formula to calculate based on your income, credit history, etc....
nothing to do with your income or what is in your bank account, they don't care... they can increase your limit way higher than what you made... you can see from HK examples, somebody got 6x they salary as their visa limit, they are hoping that you cannot afford then you'll pay only min. so that they can charge you high interest (more than 40% annually compound interest plus whatever you purchase afterward), don't ever fall into those trap, my friend....

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-18 16:29

呢度有無人唔知﹐若果你欠 VISA 或 MASTERCARD 錢﹐即使每個月 PAY MIN。﹐你之後所買任何野都要比好高利息﹐重要係日息﹐貴過大耳窿﹐大家請小心。。。

若果已經欠債又無錢還﹐去做一個 CONSOL LOAN 全部把它還掉比較好﹐這樣你再碌 (即係 ZERO BAL 再碌) 就唔會比利息﹐只要照 DUE DATE 前還就唔會有事。。。

[ 本帖最後由 Littleprince 於 2009-2-18 17:37 編輯 ]

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2009-2-18 16:49

原帖由 布小熊 於 2009-2-18 15:27 發表
the only thing i don't like about the chip is the need to go to the cash register after fine dining. it's so... non-fine dine at the end.

Don't they start to use mobile terminals now? Hopefully eventually it's all mobile terminals so it eliminates the need of going up front to settle the bill.

作者: 小叻 時間: 2009-2-18 16:56

原帖由 fibbi 於 18-2-2009 15:45 發表
Ai Ya...I use RBC card as well....And I don't like those PIN either... Guess I can't avoid it.
Yeah talking about visa limit. It just keeps going up out of no reason. There is one time I call card cen ...

me too.. The Royal Bank send us a new card..with PIN numbers.. and last time when we go to a chinese restaurant and use the card.. they ask my bf to go to the counter to enter the PIN.. and my bf was asking me..if I remember the PIN.. so we end up using another card

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2009-2-18 17:46

原帖由 BiscottiGelato 於 2009-2-18 04:49 PM 發表

Don't they start to use mobile terminals now? Hopefully eventually it's all mobile terminals so it eliminates the need of going up front to settle the bill.

some restaurants are, some not.

作者: minimeanie 時間: 2009-2-18 23:22

got my new visa 2 weeks ago w/ the chip....purposely went to change my PIN to a longer pin...haha...makes me feel safe d...in case ppl look over my shoulder...since i rarely use my debit card before....

作者: news 時間: 2009-2-19 08:08

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2009-2-18 15:20 發表

係喇﹐VISA 的 SECURITY DEPT 當晒個個都係賊﹐問野問到人好討厭。。。

有次我只係打去叫他們登記低資料﹐因為我就快去旅行﹐唔想將卡碌唔到﹐足足響電話搞左半個鐘﹐問呢問路﹐煩到想收線﹐語氣又差﹐又要等﹐仲有﹐他問 SIN 唔好答 ...

huh? how ceom they ask for your sin number? i called several times for trips and stuff and they never asked me for the sin number ga wor..haha..did u ask them why they need the sin number?

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-2-19 09:01

原帖由 news 於 2009-2-19 09:08 發表

huh? how ceom they ask for your sin number? i called several times for trips and stuff and they never asked me for the sin number ga wor..haha..did u ask them why they need the sin number?

他們核對我的身份丫嘛。。。

我無問點解呀。。。

作者: chrichri 時間: 2009-2-19 16:07

visa chip and pin technology started in europe first.

I think it is more secured than traditional visa card.

1) They will lock your card if you enter the pin number 3 times in error, like debit card. If someone steal your card, they won't be able to use your card after entering 3 times in error.
It is recommended not to use your personal information, like date of birth, phone number... for selecting pin #.

2) To enter some of your guys questions regarding someone might use ur card at atm and withdraw money. Each visa card has a daily cash withdrawal limit at ATM. It doesn't matter how much credit limit you have.
Even though you have 35000 limit, normally you can only take out 1000 per day at atm machine. Similar to DEBIT CARD.

3) some people would say it is inconvenient to enter pin # at cashier when you go out for fine dining. A lot of restaurants and places are getting wireless terminal machine.

4) visa pin# Exposure---- It is safer to kinda cover the pin pad when you enter pin# in front of others.

The reason banks migrate the cards to chip cards:
Save money for fraud and lost- also save our time when we don't have to go through fraud on our cards.
It has been significantly reduced numbers of fraud and lost
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Traditional visas are too easy to use... if you cards got stolen, a lot of thieves can easily use cards by forging signatures. They can compromise your cards in a very short period.

Also if you are traveling to other countries, some cashier might not be able to read your signatures in chinese or english. it is so easy for experienced thieves to copy your signatures and make tons of purchases with your card.

Anyway, visa chip card and pin technology will be the trend.

作者: chrichri 時間: 2009-2-19 16:17

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2009-2-19 10:01 發表

他們核對我的身份丫嘛。。。

我無問點解呀。。。

it is very unusual that they ask sin number for verification cuz most of the time when you apply for visa, it is optional for you to provide a sin number.
Next time when you comes across that kind of problem, speak to a supervisor.

they normally only need to ask you 3-4 questions if you can answer all the questions correctly. If you answered 1 question wrong, they will ask you more questions, but will not tell you that you provide a wrong answer.

i know sometimes they ask a lot of difficult questions or personal questions, but they are just trying to protect your privacy...
so before you call them... have the necessary information ready...
e.g. what is your credit limit
e.g what is your last purchase/ payment amount or date of last purchase.
e.g is your credit card joint
e.g what is your date of birth?
e.g what is your home phone number?

作者: chrichri 時間: 2009-2-19 16:20

原帖由 minimeanie 於 2009-2-19 00:22 發表
got my new visa 2 weeks ago w/ the chip....purposely went to change my PIN to a longer pin...haha...makes me feel safe d...in case ppl look over my shoulder...since i rarely use my debit card before.. ...

for a lot of places outside of canada and US, they don't take more than 4 digits pin number. it will show as error and lock your card after entering 3 times.

作者: ricrick 時間: 2009-2-19 20:10

chrichri, your info is very useful. thxthx

作者: news 時間: 2009-2-20 09:12

原帖由 chrichri 於 2009-2-19 16:17 發表

it is very unusual that they ask sin number for verification cuz most of the time when you apply for visa, it is optional for you to provide a sin number.
Next time when you comes across that kind o ...

yeah very true...i worked in a financial instituion...so i found it very odd when littleprince got asked sin number for verification..haha

作者: Manlau 時間: 2009-2-24 21:29

I agreed, the cards company simply want to pass the responsibility and loss to the users. I prefer signing to PIN too.

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