notgoddy

I remember a Star Trek episode saying that single life began when some chemicals were mixed together. like amino acid mix with protein. http://wiesium.wrzuta.pl/film/9KBoXo4aGr/

Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life

I think this is plausible because simple condition can give rise to complex systems.  Like Chess or Go, there is many moves you can make with those simple rules, but some moves are better than other and those moves usually prevails.
Now if certain chemical reactions are favorable than those reactions will thrive, and those reaction that are better will continue to react. Like those equilibrium reaction seems to be alive as they try so hard to stay at equilibrium.

Evolution proponents will say that the processes of life is not random, and this is true, but the beginning of life is certainly by chance. If those chemicals did not come together and react I would not get to pretend to be smart ass right now.

notgoddy

The wiki article said something about that it was random bits of RNA first so it didn't need billions of atom to come together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world_hypothesis
whooo this article have pictures showing what the "Letters" is in chemical structure.

notgoddy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ori ... dels:_the_RNA_world

The first article said that "relatively short RNA molecules could have spontaneously formed that were capable of catalyzing their own continuing replication. It is difficult to gauge the probability of this formation." And the second article I linked is an hypothesis about how the formation might had come about.

I don't think random molecules needs a mind to joins together, it is all like chances of collision. Apparently scientist aren't sure about the origin of life as you know, but it looks like they have a lot of theories and a few experiments that supports them. That said, I don't think there is a full-filling answer for you puZZle, yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_theory
Exceptions to the Theory

   1. Viruses are considered by some to be alive, yet they are not made up of cells.
   2. The first cell did not originate from a pre-existing cell. See: Origin of life.


lol quoting wiki is fun! I think I'll edit it so I am "right" lol

[ 本帖最後由 notgoddy 於 2008-8-18 21:16 編輯 ]

notgoddy

May be we are thinking too small as well, because this possible life giving reaction could had taken place all over the Earth, so we are not talking about just one single pool of chemical. If the chance are like the 649, 1 in 14 millions, than it would be quite likely to be a common occurrence because of the condition at the time exists all over and there are trillions and trillions of atoms on the surface of the Earth. (Earth was just cooling down and water finally gets to be liquid at this point in time, so the theory goes.)

notgoddy

A good chunk of the thread is missing! I had a nice long reply but somehow it got deleted.   *oh well


"chemical bonds are easily broken by elements such as oxygen"-puZZle, citation needed.


Ignore the first two and an half minutes:


underwater = no O2 gas

notgoddy

I am not a fan of Miller-Urey so I didn't know the oxygen thing, but I really like the thermal vent thing with the RNA and stuff. that is cool in that video.
No need to apologize to a fellow expert, puZZle.

notgoddy

Yeah, the ultimate creator is in the 11th dimension, no way we could get it.

notgoddy

We are 4 dimensional being anchored by a 3 dimensional body, and so we have a hard time letting go of the idea of time.  The ultimate Universe is timeless, and chances are 1:1.

If initial conditions are different then different kinds of life might exist.