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43# spoonek4

人, 唔死過係唔識驚既, 再講丫, 而家d新車咁平, 舊車又唔值錢, keep 黎仲乜?

不過假設渣緊一個full load civic, lease 四年都萬幾, 期間又唔係乜都唔駛整, 可能整少d啦, 我架civic十年都係折舊左萬二(雖然唔係full load, 再講icbc仲要比我top book, 不過私人賣我最多都係少一千)?

其實好多時候都要睇一個人有幾錫車, 愛車之人同用車之人係兩回事黎既....可能我地有d人真係接受唔到架車唔順, 會壞啦...不過有d人渣住個炸彈又未必知, 有d又驚渣住個炸彈頻頻換車...咩人都會有架喎
我係5 Zigen :P

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我突然之間覺得好有某人feel, 一個朋友好鍾意架車有事就係internet到print一大堆野/forward一大堆野比我, 咁即係叫我跟住做照收錢丫, 定係睇下果個係唔係果個問題定係另一個問題, 之後又睇下果個辦法好d定呢個辦法好d...佢講左句我覺得有d值得大家參考既野: "點解人地整左得我地整左唔得既, internet明明話個sensor拆出黎洗下佢就得架喎, 係唔係洗既方法唔同? 又唔係丫, 跟足架喎; 唔講係支cleaner唔同? 可能加拿大同美國同一個牌子/型式既cleaner都有唔同? 不如再洗洗佢?"

老實講, 佢果個問題有兩個只不過係佢絲咪之前冇留意, 一路行到佢唔得果刻先整, 冇計....

再講, 一架著唔到既車一次過搵到八個問題既都唔係冇見過, problem over problem 既時候始終都要整, 好多時候只不過因為一樣野有問題唔整(有時候真係唔知)而導致其他野壞, 咁到頭整一個問題唔整另一個跟本唔一定行得通?!

好似今日整架漏電油, injector o-ring漏不過原來係因為個fuel pressure regulator窒左, 換完d injector o-ring之後起初冇事渣出去返黎又聞到, 再check個fuel pressure regulator漏, 一拆就個佢窒左...我只係可以講, 佢唔好彩 (換injector o-ring之前已經講過, 好多時候都係個FPR窒導致谷到邊到弱就邊到漏...
我係5 Zigen :P

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48# shutterbug

其實我一向入油都會入少半Liter, 之後睇下佢差幾多先至大約入到max, 再著車check leak同埋warm起d油, 熄車之後三十秒左右開始睇level, 慢慢入到差唔多, 唔sure我會睇兩三次睇下個level會唔會定落黎; 之後再top up到max...

不過真係有好多車如果換油換得唔夠密 ~ 唔駛好耐, 三幾萬公里已經可以好明顯?! 好似今日整架08 FiT, 12000km, 超低里數, honda叫佢唔夠15%唔好返去換油, 佢今日就已經問我"架車而家好食油(我有問佢係唔係天氣涷左), 同埋有時候架車有怪味(我有問佢入咩油, 佢話入左89之後怪味已經少過87), 咁我話你不如整完再睇下點?! 佢渣左一日, 已經話平時會有怪味既路已經冇左味, 行多一兩個禮拜就會知overall點; 整完第一樣野留意到既就係d油一邊都幾滿咁去到max,另一邊就參差不齊 (雖然係even level), 咁我再望一望, 嘩, 08年而家先12,000km, 唔講仲以為30,000km! 咁我都係叫佢最好都係換油換密d, 頂多半年或5000km (whichever comes first)? 佢做唔做我就唔知喇, 不過架車似乎渣得咁少就更加無謂整殘佢? 就算係渣得多既, 保養得好唔駛架車殘得咁快都係一件好事黎架jei?

我都記得你以前講過你曾經都係同行(不過我唔記得你做邊科), 但係有時候有d野都係我既個人意見, 見到觀察到既盡量唔係比佢惡化, 做左總比冇做係好既, 不過buy唔buy我就控制唔到, 至少我講左心安理得?! 好多野我都想上網或者問下就有答案, 不過好老實講, 但求心安理得咁囉....如果唔warm up, 入87, 8000km換油, 又或者鍾意先換又好, 乜都好, 好似CP講, 時間就係金錢, 搵到既怕咩之後要整要換車?

識我既人都知換油冇可能係十零廿分鐘既事, 唔係唔得不過一定放唔乾淨?! 我放幾粒鐘既都有, 邊放邊整其他, 可以放得幾清咪幾清囉, and i always drain the oil hot. 如果我咁樣放都唔清, 好老實講, 我話唔乾淨唔係順口開河?!

保養對我黎講好重要, 冇一個好既底架車又點會耐用? 之後d人成日話改乜改物, 連最基本既保養好多時候真係都未做好? 我係呢度講咁多, 只不過係重複每一日會同朋友講既野, 岩聽可以聽唔岩聽既亦真係唔好咁介懷, 我冇錢賺 (又或者咁講, 有都唔一定係我賺?), 唔講錢又可必傷感情呢? lol
我係5 Zigen :P

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51# Catpiano

Um ..  but if the engine take 5L, put 5L oil into it .. if it takes 10L, put 10L into it .. may be +/- a little bit la....


if life can be so easy, lots of things can be simpler...that's what a lot of mechanic does actually, and leading to either overfill or underfill...

我記得有一次個friend出左架新車, 我唔知用幾多油咁佢就攞個owner's manual出黎睇, it says "it takes 4.7L depends on how much oil has been drained"之類既野, 咁我個朋友第一個反應係"咁即係點呀?"...其實講真, drain十分鐘同一個鐘真係唔止差30 to 40ml, 因為我係用946ml裝既castrol gtx (方便丫嘛), 所以我知我通常都要比manual入多250ml 至500ml...d friend真係睇住我入到咁多架喎....

你打個電話去Honda扮要做service, 不過突然間mention你Oil Life仲有50%囉, 佢真係會叫你唔駛做住, 我個friend drop低架車佢地可以比番佢咩都冇做過???

點保養架車, 除左你改得勁, 渣得狼, 要保養得密之外, 本身原廠recommend你做service既interval好多時候已經係太遲太耐, 所以係視乎你有幾錫車想佢last幾耐, 多問題定少問題之類囉...換個油有幾貴? 有幾煩? 不過聽你既口氣時間就係金錢, 搵到既梗係換車算啦...都係洗錢ja ma...
Well, I am not mechanic ... ( I wish I am .. ^_^ ) I just follow whatever the car tell me, and I don't drive aggressive anymore, (nor super slow nor in high traffic) so, normal service should be fine.
我係5 Zigen :P

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CP: unfortunately i always do mostly referral and i have numerous of stories...只不過有時侯我覺得如果真係覺得人地整得好, 冇doubt, 咁你跟本唔會攞second opinion; 整得唔好, 又或者有doubt, 咁自然會想睇下係唔係比人呃???

sb: thx for the link, see if i can get some time tonite from work to read thru those...then maybe we can open up another topic to discuss...
我係5 Zigen :P

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岩岩睇完條link, 都唔知可以講咩, 只不過去得啖笑加一堆問號?

首先,我都認同, d油愈出愈靚, 照道理真係可以保養得架車好d, 不過佢講話d污衊野係由燃燒過程電油同空氣產生出黎既, 合成機油都算係而家比較好既機油, 雖然我都唔認同等於可以遲d換(只不過係同等period保護得好d), 咁點解佢又話3000miles換一次其實都唔係好須要? 換油當然要換油隔不過佢又話而家d油靚左照道理唔係應該冇污衊得咁快? 咁佢又叫人唔好3000Miles換但係又唔好用得咁盡用到有sludge? 之不過唔攞去lab驗又唔知, 但係好似有d車八萬開油蓋或valve cover真係好似一pat屎咁, 咁果d係唔係sludge呢? 但係人地跟足原廠話八千就八千, 次次唔係一百幾十(至於都$80?), 就係三五七百, 點解呢? 唔通入錯油?

咁好似洗車, 洗碗, 洗衫一樣, 換油就係一個最好既洗engine方法...咁如果你洗車/洗碗/洗衫見到d水污衊, 你都會換個d水啦, 咁點解見到d油污衊其實唔驗換, 仲要攞去化驗? 仲有佢話成日行hwy就唔駛換咁密? 你試下直渣三個鐘個engine熱唔熱丫喇? 但係佢又話heat breaks down oil more quickly?

我都唔想話人地講既野係錯, 我只係可以講話唔明, 我都想有位高人可以解釋下 ;)

不過其實點講都好, 但求心安理得, 唔換都得, 死左既時候唔好怪人地; 換得密都仲會死既就認命啦, 好似讀書考試咁, 盡左力唔係死而無憾? LOL
我係5 Zigen :P

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Dictionary, I don't know if you've misread something, but I'll try to see if I can answer you...


希望你唔會覺得我煩啦...


首先,我都認同, d油愈出愈靚, 照道理真係可以保養得架車好d, 不過佢講話d污衊野係由燃燒過程電油同空氣產生出黎既, 合成機油都算係而家比較好既機油, 雖然我都唔認同等於可以遲d換(只不過係同等period保護得好d), 咁點解佢又話3000miles換一次其實都唔係好須要?
Oil is getting better, so 3000 miles interval is not needed anymore, make sense wor


唔明, 咁佢都講左d污濁野係點黎, 亦都講埋synthetic都唔代表可以用長d時間, 咁正常油污濁就應該換, 如果好似佢咁講污衊係正常既咁又係邊樹黎d sludge?


換油當然要換油隔不過佢又話而家d油靚左照道理唔係應該冇污衊得咁快? 咁佢又叫人唔好3000Miles換但係又唔好用得咁盡用到有sludge?
It says "The key thing is to change the oil before the oil becomes too saturated with contaminants to hold any more, but color is not an indication of this condition."  It also says "by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become saturated."  Then the author goes into describing what's severe schedule vs normal schedule (every manufacture will have these 2 schedules).  If you belong to severe, then of course change oil more often.  So far so good, all makes sense.


咁如果d油應該用到咁盡, 等佢都潤滑唔到個engine, 又clean up唔到d污衊野, 咁但係又唔可以比佢sludge, 好難架喎....


咁點解見到d油污衊其實唔驗換, 仲要攞去化驗?
Article says "The way modern detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken."  "The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing is to have an oil analysis performed."  Oil analysis is optional, that's for people who really want to know.


我都明d油就好似清潔劑咁, 所以會污衊; 不過根據我自己既實驗, 99年車 (98年9月買), 146k, d油4000換一次 (never add up, just every 4k), 就算係對上一個oil change (144k), 佢既condition都比好多兩/三萬公里既新車好...咁即係好定唔好呢? compare番同期既車真係冇問題同埋爽好多, 自己個心就一直都覺得好d, 眼見自己有個朋友有架同款車, 202k, 又落過場, 又去過美國中部做野, 同樣都係4000km換一次, 亦都係渣落好静好爽, 真係有d新車都冇得比喎....


仲有佢話成日行hwy就唔駛換咁密? 你試下直渣三個鐘個engine熱唔熱丫喇? 但係佢又話heat breaks down oil more quickly?
If you're cruising on hwy, your rpm and engine load is not that high, unless you go Coquilhala or something.  Also at hwy speed, cooling system is much more efficient.  Therefore, engine won't get as hot as driving in rush hour traffic.


係, 塞車咁冇冷空氣打入去咁個cooling system就梗係會用得勁d (夏天開埋冷氣可以overheat tim), 不過唔代表你cruise hwy就唔熱, 架車愈行愈"Lup", 停一停, 歇一歇再行, 又爽番...


If you just want to be 心安理得, then do whatever you like.  The point I want to make is that one may not need to do it so often, of course depending on servere service or not.  Don't waste your money for something you don't need and harm the environment with all that used oil and filters.


咁但係你又冇講點叫密, 點叫唔密? 有d人覺得六千換油太密, 有d人又覺得六千太耐, 你既建議係?

Btw Dictionary, are you a licensed tech?  Just curious...


我? 都係上下forum, search下google惡補下, 得閒上黎吹下水叫做幫得就幫, 幫唔到既又唔關我事咁囉

個牌? 考完都未見過, 可能過左期lu (不過又好似冇expiry date, 剩係記得有個issue date...)

咁題外話又問下, 洗車水, 洗衣液之類既野就道理污濁左其實都應該繼續洗, 至少環保丫嘛...換油呢家野其實有咪得囉, 其實以為應該剩係sell "top up fluids"...又快, 又方便, 記得以前有個朋友十七萬都係換十五次油, 架車都仲行得呀, 不過要換engine之嘛, 另一個最近期既又係, 死左一個cylinder唔緊要, 仲有三個...
我係5 Zigen :P

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When the oil becomes *saturated with contaminant* particles new particles settle out of the oil onto the internal engine parts and form sludge.  The point is that when you follow manufacturer's service schedule (severe or normal), the *saturated with contaminant* point will not happen before you do a service.  People could be driving in severe condition but using normal service schedule, which is a common problem.


咁你覺得有幾多人其實會屬於severe condition有夕幾人又屬於normal呢? 有好多人半年連五千都行唔到, 咁算點呢? 仲有, 原廠都有sell engine flush, 三萬零左右, 咁如果換油換得夠密又點解咁早要flush? 近黎佢地又話flush唔好, 咁之前比佢地flush左果d點算?

[/quote]
不過根據我自己既實驗, 99年車 (98年9月買), 146k, d油4000換一次 (never add up, just every 4k), 就算係對上一個oil change (144k), 佢既condition都比好多兩/三萬公里既新車好...咁即係好定唔好呢? compare番同期既車真係冇問題同埋爽好多, 自己個心就一直都覺得好d, 眼見自己有個朋友有架同款車, 202k, 又落過場, 又去過美國中部做野, 同樣都係4000km換一次, 亦都係渣落好静好爽, 真係有d新車都冇得比喎....
I can only say different year, different driver, etc hard to compare.  However, I don't agree with a car that has 144k is in better condition than a car with 30k, unless the driver of the 30k car trashes his car with no maint or whatever.  Following manufacturer's schedule is enough to keep the car in good shape.[/quote]

seriously, 無論架車放出黎既油, 就連拆出黎既油隔(漏乾之後)重量都唔同, 咁當然三萬零公里既車某一個程度上黎講你新"少少"囉, 不過真係睇到都覺得可憐架; 咁當然, 如果冇要求既, 求其換左油, 入滿gas架車咪行得囉...不過幾年後架車已經比起同期既差...

曾經, 有一個朋友渣架02 Civic Si, 棍波, 一路都返廠做保養 (ave 7800km, very on time according to honda, warm up about 2 mins before drive, 94 when new then 87 when it gets older and older), 到差唔多八萬公里佢話保養期過左話唔想攞番廠, 睇完之後同佢整左一大堆基本保養都冇做好既野, 但係佢d單就話做左乜做左物, 整完佢覺得好好, 我覺得都仲係差d, 唔夠爽; 剛巧有個朋友渣同年civic, 八萬五 (多幾千公里, 我會話大同小異啦), 都係棍仔, 五千一次Motul Synthetic, 有用autostart warm車, 入89/92, 期間有一兩次咁岩我返左香港佢攞去原廠換油, 佢話換完冇咁爽喎 (不過烈市honda都係有賣motul, 入左d咩我就唔知啦), 佢地交換車渣左一個圈, 之後一個黑面一個好開心; 開心果個梗係覺得保養得好值得, 而家仲渣緊! 唔開心果個三個月後換左車lu, 因為compression reading都有d分別啦, 一架d嘩佬明顯響d要較咁囉 (其實我都真係好唔好意思, 攪到佢心裡面有條刺, 不過都好既, 佢真係好鍚車, 只不過係之前唔識)

係, 塞車咁冇冷空氣打入去咁個cooling system就梗係會用得勁d (夏天開埋冷氣可以overheat tim), 不過唔代表你cruise hwy就唔熱, 架車愈行愈"Lup", 停一停, 歇一歇再行, 又爽番...
Of course engine will get hot, but how hot is the question.  Your engine is way hotter when you're stuck in traffic than cruising on hwy.   That's why if you drive in heavy traffic, you should follow the severe service schedule lor.


應該咁講, 唔同既熱啦, 塞車塞得耐, engine熱架車會lup, 一行番順又會好d; 行長程既其實個engine都好熱, 所以其實一樣咁重要...

不過我覺得如果一架車成日行短程(每日都係行十零廿公里之內), 同一架車成日行"中程"(每日行四十零五十公里), 咁中程既會好d; 但係有朋友日日行80至120km左右既都有, 我唔見得果d好囉; 好多時候驗二手車其實已經可以睇到好多野, 不過當然, 買得起新車而又換得起身既, 保養好似算唔算唔重要?

咁但係你又冇講點叫密, 點叫唔密? 有d人覺得六千換油太密, 有d人又覺得六千太耐, 你既建議係?
I recommend following the manufacturer's schedule.  Make sure you know if you're severe service or normal service.  That's the key.  If you're a taxi driver and you follow the normal schedule no doubt you will trash your engine.  If you ask me how long, I will say what is your driving condition first.


umm...咁我諗你既車都係跟廠建議去做? 行左幾多呀? 不如我搵架同年同款既攞黎做個compression check, 比較下post上黎再討論下丫; 你帶埋油同油隔黎大家fresh oil比較下亦得...當係送比其他老友記既禮物? (唔緊要, 你可以自己落手落腳做, 或者做完先即刻黎都得)

我都係想比較下ja...好似琴日一個朋友架車咁, 二手番黎試過engine flush, 換多幾次油之後又回復原狀, 咁我上次就叫佢換完油行左1500km左右番黎試下放出黎咩樣(佢行左1415km), 睇落似四千零公里囉; 入左落去既新油明顯比上次入落去既好左, 今次二千再番過黎...

換完之後同佢出去食飯走hwy落烈治文, 架車順左好多...咁又點解呢? 冇理油呢d天氣行左千零公里就有分別架喎? 咁唔理佢照舊五千換, 佢又好似一次差過一次, 咁點算呢???

人生真係太多問號喇, 好彩有shutterbug...下次我可以copy and paste話番比人知 (不過我亦都知當中其實佢地已經係度CD Rom緊, oooops)....
我係5 Zigen :P

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sb: 唔好意思, engine flush的確唔係正常既service schedule / requirement裡面, 我講緊既係現實生活朋友既經歷(honda / toyota / mazda / subaru/ volkswagen / audi 之裡既都好似有聽過, 或者係佢地d單/ service record裡面見到曾經做過, 絕對唔係一d owner's manual有寫同冇寫既問題, 而係有d dealership的確留意到耐唔換油既問題, 好似我見過有人人地叫佢8000換佢就成萬先換, 都係差2000jei, 差下差下, 四萬公里已經差左成個oil change囉...

我自己都唔贊成engine flush, 最大既問題其實唔係loose dirt會塞d咩passage, 係我真係試過換完油之後個engine死左, 原來佢之前平均萬二換一次, 果陣都未夠廿萬副engine四個cylinder得兩個勉強到MINIMUM, 其他兩個係MINIMUM既一半, 原因反而係因為佢之前太差, 副engine係靠d污衊野黎hold up D compression, 換完之後爽晒跟住就突然暴斃, 死況極之可憐...

另一個朋友又係成日都懶換油, 02年車剛過十萬早前97000km同佢換火咀既時候話佢架車渣上黎真係唔係咁順不如睇睇compression, 點知做到第三個cylinder仲差d以為個錶壞左, 得其他既一半, 咁迷底咪打開左囉...佢都有成日睇住d oil level, 佢都話近年污衊得快左燒得快左, 8000km可能要入1L至1.5L?

我好肯定一樣野,佢唔warm車,永遠入87, 同埋得閒先換油,冇時間就check check oil level果d黎既...但係就十萬都冇...

其實每一個人都有佢既keep車方法同原則,只不過係有時候一d不經心既答案就會令到一d一知半解既人出問題(果個我都知絕對唔係你, 個朋友就係入網見人地話可以咁可以咁, 唔駛點又唔駛點)..只不過既然你有你既意見我亦都有我既,睇下邊個幫到大家囉;再講,可能我同你講完佢出到去人地做既野又唔同...根本唔會知...我都係但求心安理得...

就係正當你冇可能知每一個人既用法有冇問題, 又或者本身架車出廠有冇問題, 係紙上談兵既情況下, 我就更加唔想人地會一知半解而出問題, 重申, 有問題會係果d唔識車亦都唔會去check tire pressure呀, check oil level呀, 之類既大眾...

我冇整過警車, 不過我朋友隔黎間車房有, 亦都有朋友既車房專整的士, 我自己亦都有整教車師傅車 (口口0唔係好多, 五年平均四十至六十萬, 視乎佢幾勤力), 送報紙送餐一個月唔少過四千既好多...剩係返工放工去女朋友屋企同出下街, 99年到而家第3架車, 之前每架廿萬左右(都係因為被撞而total loss, 四年左右咁既里數trade in可能冇人要, 不過icbc都比佢top book因為condition好...最新呢架07年120k左右(女友會流行少左)...佢地全當中有d係"i have to keep this car on the road, so whatever has to be done, it gotta be done" ~ 好似警車同緊急車輛咁 (你估投張contract返黎平呀? 投都係因為果d車咩都要整既就整, 又行得多)....的士冇得講, d阿叉cheap, 不過有d自己車既都keep得唔錯架(我都有朋友之前渣的士, 自己車)...

300k我又想睇下有幾多架真係可以拆左valve cover, they look like day 1; 唔駛day 1, 我就搵我架得一半都冇里數既黎compare啦...
我係5 Zigen :P

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65# shutterbug

經過你咁樣解釋, 同你之前既講法其實已經好大分別, 我亦都覺得有好多人都係因為懶成日都覺得未夠mileage jei唔駛換住, 98年車而家先六萬幾既至少有幾架, 92年車而家三萬幾既布有一架, 有架仲好似唔知90/91年而家先八千....冇錯, 係八千...

個車主仲覺得佢自己架車好好condition, 咁低里數一定可以仲賣到好價同有人買, 結果係個個都驚佢其實擺都擺到壞, 跟本呢個亦都係事實...八千公里連fuel pump都換過...

冇錯, 我真係唔會每一架車都問, 不過見到有奇怪既一定問, 保養得好d之後命都希望可以長d; 當然, 冇人會知呢個會唔會係事實, 但求都係心安理得, 如果唔覺得係一個問題既咩都唔做都得, 少少驚就做多少少, care既咪做多d, 好似今日幫一個tune車既人整少少野, 佢就係度勁"小"好多人剩係識渣, 識改, 連最少既保養都未做好; 當然, 觀點角度唔同, 做既野梗係唔同啦...

再舉個例, 03年G35四萬八千公里(計過, 一日平均20-22km), 好低里數丫, 廠叫佢8000換油, 佢就真係八千, 六年幾七年車, 一個禮拜都會由渣一次素里返UBC, 其他男友接送, 平均唔夠一年零一個月換一次油, 四萬三果時有一個cylinder已經少左compression (190-160-195-190-195-195)...係, 160夠有找, 仲係高過minimum, 不過一架咁新既車就真係好可惜...

我會攞一d玩實生活既case出黎比較, 可能就係因為我成日都會做compression test同leakdown test (for 買賣二手車, 朋友tune車前tuner要知架車既健康狀況, 真係會由萬零公里到十幾, 廿幾萬既車都要試, 試得多就自然知道點解一d人架車可能比人地高里數不過仲係健康d, 有d點解好新淨就已經比人差...

至少, 我講完既都係事實, 唔係剩係吹, 幫唔幫到大家我唔知, 大家鍾意點做亦都唔到我理 (好似一個uncle每次都係笑笑口話唔得閒所以遲黎換油, 咁我又可以點? 祝佢好運囉, 我做就做左我自己既本份喇)...

CP: 其實一直都好peaceful, 只不過係我覺得有d野有d地方如果可以講得清楚d誤會亦都會少d, 因為真係好多人其實睇完都只不過係一知半解...

Quest講既野就detail好多, 不過可能technical到大家未必一定睇得明...其實好多時侯佢地測試d油都係係個lab度, 有一d測試同現實生活係有一定既偏差, 所以我都好相信佢地會R&D之後都會再黎一d現實生活既測試, 就好似點解車廠要出recall一樣??? 如果覺得七千冇問題咪七千囉, 如果覺得一萬冇問題就一萬囉...好似我自己架車咁, 換完油都未行夠一千, 不過停左保險一陣, 見到又半年喇, 咪換一換油囉, 換完順左又慳油左, 安心咪得囉...
我係5 Zigen :P

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