BiscottiGelato

China have a bottom line, Liu Xiaobo offended China's bottom line (seperating China), and got imprisoned for it.

The Western world have a bottom line, and people like Julianne Assange is stepping on it, and the Western world is going after him for it.

In both cases we can argue on the basis of Freedom of Speech. In both cases the government acted similarly. To ask for Liu Xiaobo to be freed, then Julianne Assange should get off the hook first.

As a previous poster stated, the Nobel peace prize have been politically charged with the arrow pointing straight towards China. Dalai Lama, Obama and Liu Xiaobo IMO have contributed nothing to peace. Dalai Lama's is a seperatist, aiming to poke at China where it hurts. If that's not an act trying to instigate war, I don't know what is. I'd say he's a war instigator. Obama have done nothing contributing to peace, he is just doing what he has to do as the President of US. Obviously if you compare him to Bush, then he looks like a saint but otherwise he really is just any other US President when it comes to the topic of 'peace'. Liu Xiaobo again is yet another one that is screwing around looking for a fight. Whether his proposed political reform is good or not is beyond the point. But what he did is basically asking China to respond him with trouble, and I don't see how provokation equates to peace. If Liu Xiaobo deserves the peace prize, I'd only call it fair if Julianne Assange gets it for 2011!

The western propganda and hypocracy have been rising as they are throwing in all they've got to curb China's influence. When China is doing something wrong, they blame China for it. When China is doing wrong just like they themselves are, they still call China names. Even when China is doing something right, they still say it's China's fault.

I hope that most LYK is just arguing for argument's sake, and that they can actually peer through the fact from the garbage at the back of their minds. Stuff like 三鹿奶粉事件, sure China handled it really badly. But other things, like expecting China to adopt democracy overnight, expect China to let RMB appreciate by 20% overnight, and applying other western standards, or giving in to western demands, are just plain BS. Anyone who believe in those are just totally brain washed by Western propagandas.

In my view, the Western world is not on that much more of a moral high ground when compared to China. I'd take anything they have to say with a large grain of salt.

BiscottiGelato

LOL
WikiLeaks' Julian Assange 'Should Get Nobel Peace Prize,' Says Russia
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/20 ... ange-_n_794965.html

BiscottiGelato

Someone do get it:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofvi ... -a-nobel-prize.html
"Ocomar tweeted that Assange is to the U.S. what jailed democratic activist Liu Xiaobo is to China. "[Assange] should be awarded the Nobel Prize too or backed by Amnesty International."

BiscottiGelato

You are quite correct that the 2 cases are similar in that both persons crossed the bottom lines of ...
Lik 發表於 2010-12-10 13:25

Exactly, Assange probably can get away legally. But it seems that the US is trying to work their diplomatic muscles to bend the law. It's not that different from China really. Besides, so far it's just all those dumb-ass politician in the states that doing the talking. The ones actually decides on how to counter Assange definately works behind the scene, maybe even Obama won't know about it... That's exactly why we need something like WikiLeak to know how things works behind the scene in the US, and how undemocratic their processes are.

Dalai Lama have been involved in seperatism in the past, and he's still eligible for NPP? Obama is pulling troops from Afghan and you call that a 'peace effort'? I call that a debt reduction effort. Anyone elected for the current term as US President would do that. Heck Harper have been trying to pull troops all the time too, why don't we give him a NPP too?

On the subject of Liberty and Human Rights, China is still in Grade 3 Elementary School while the Western World is 3rd year University. The Western World slams China for not being able to do Algebra when they fail Calculus themselves. China obviously have much to improve, they are still classified as a developing country afterall. I'm not saying China should get away with everything because of this, but the way China is slammed by Western media is definately politically charged or greatly influenced by prior propganda.

With that perspective in place, I'd say the Western World disappoints me much more so as a University student than China as an Elementary student. If China is 2 steps forward, 1 step back, then the Western World is doing 2 steps back for each step forward... The way the Western values are eroding from Western societies concerns me much more than the slow progress that China is making every day. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be where international media attention is focusing on, with possible reasons stated prior (government influence and propaganda).

BiscottiGelato

回復  peter236

Have you ever seen it happened in USA, Germany and Switzland?
A government that doe ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 13:38

I agree China have much room to improve. But from my limited observatoin, China is improving, albeit at a snail pace. After all, China have been delayed by 100 years by the very foreign interests that is criticizing it today.

As I said in the post above. I'd think much more of our attention is deserved in protecting the Western values that we thought we have, but is quickly slipping away, from the Western society that we are living in today (unless you are posting from Asia).

BiscottiGelato

China supporters always use this as their excuse to cut China some slack on their human rights disa ...
Lik 發表於 2010-12-10 22:44

The international expectation is double standard. They suppressed China for 100+ years and they expect China to be measured by the same ruler as western societies are? What hypocrite.

Obviously I'd love that the entire China have the living standard of Norway. To up hold Civil Liberty with the highest regard (even US/Canada can't do that based on all those police power trips). To expect so and criticize based on that is simply dreaming. Any person or persons in power will always try to preserve the status quo. Just like US in going after Julian Assange. China is all the same. And with their political system it will take it even longer for change to occur unless there's an economic, political or social collapse. I am not trying to buy China any excuses. I am merely being realistic. The reality is China as a whole is moving towards the right way, but at a snail pace. Western society is on a decline and trying to stop China at all costs, including using all sorts of nasty propaganda. Shame on the hypocrites.

BiscottiGelato

I do not blindly follow the western media,
I refer to the general opinion of the  average HKers,
My  ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 23:24

I don't really care about what the popular opinion is, in HK in China with-in CCP within the Western media, I don't give a crap. I only care about opinion pieces that is based on fact, makes sense and shed me insight. Try to formulate your own opinion based on fact, not what your friends, relatives or the HK scholars are thinking.

Obviously CCP is not the greatest thing around. But they are there and they are there to stay. They are a centralized power and centralized power have even more power to preserve the status quo. It's time to be realistic and know what can be expected of them and what kind of change can be realistically instigated.

I agree the fiasco they are doing doesn't buy anyone any votes. Putting LXB's wife under house arrest really doesn't do anyone good but buy them further unpopular sentiments. I tho understand why they want to go into great length to censor LXB's NPP, as they really don't want people to associate separatism ideology to anything glorious. If any civil liberty is being stomped on, I don't think they give a crap and any screaming and yelling on LYK is just a waste a breath. It isn't the first time and won't be the last time and there's nth that anyone can do about it. (they can't even do much for the 36 baby formula guy. You want something to be done about a political dissident and his wife?)

You'd like to think that government officials from the President down to your average law enforcement officers are just public servants, and they are no more superior to the regular Joe. I'd like to think so too, in fact I like to think of them as my subordinate cuz I pay a ton of their salary. Unfortunately the thinking is not reciprocated. They definitely don't think that way at all. In fact, they do actually have a lot more power as afforded by the bureaucracy. This is the case for all Western 'civilized' society. More so for a non-democratic society like China. Expecting so is just kidding yourself.

Calling people names like 'suckers' degrade you to the like of Lik... Please don't do that cuz it washes your credibility down the drain. Thanks.

BiscottiGelato

"Suckers" is a common term I use often at work,
even in the public and no one seem to feel offense. ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-11 14:24

Why do you ask me? CCP is a piece of sh_t, violate their own laws, break their own promises. I totally agree. This is because they are a centralized power that does not need to answer to their people. I'd say tho that if you are in the same position of power, u'd do exactly the same. One'd wish that they will change for the better. But it's unrealistic to expect them to change over night. And no one man's power can do this change either. The change will take time. It's just a waste of breath to expect the impossible.

BiscottiGelato

Please don't tell me that it is all the Western's propagandas,
I study much more articles from HK th ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-11 14:26

I never said it's Western Propaganda every time. I'm just saying this is clearly Western propaganda this time.

The Western world tho, do dish out more propaganda than you'd think. And it seems they are doing it more and more often as China's influence grows.