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六四民主海嘯泡沫化的現象 from 富爸爸

六四民主海嘯泡沫化的現象                                                        富爸爸 [email protected]

        年近六四20週年﹐  我首先向當年所有的六四死者默哀。六四歲我國民主發展過程中發生的最大民主海嘯泡沫﹐ 造成很多社會混亂。  自從鄧小平推行改革開放以來 (證明以前未改革開放)﹐在經濟方面取得非常高速的發展﹐在政治上也逐步邁向開放。當時由於在經濟高速發展的過程中﹐產生了一些社會問題﹐社會上出現了很多要求民主的聲音﹐尤其是一些知識分子﹐非常響往西方的資本主義制度﹐認為只要實行了西方的民主制度﹐就可以解決我國經濟高速發展所產生的社會問題。一個有10多億人口的國家﹐80%以上是農民﹐有很多還是文盲﹐衣食住行也還未解決﹐要發展民主談何容易。 這種不顧現實政治經濟環境﹐盲目追求西方民主制度﹐令我國的民主發展出現了泡沫化的現象。
        多人爭論六四悲劇的誰是誰非﹐每年六四前後香港的泛民主派就會挑起話題﹐要求平反六四﹐但是泛民主派卻從來沒有反思過在六四悲劇中﹐他們所擔當的角式對悲劇發生所應負的責任﹐沒有他們的推波助瀾﹐就不會發展到如此的悲劇結局。
        相信絕大部份人都支持民主﹐但是發展民主要循序漸進﹐不能為了發展民主不顧現實而影響社會穩定。六四就是一個民主泡沫爆破的例子。本來在文化大革命後﹐我國逐步邁向民主﹐經濟開始高速發展﹐民生也得到了改善﹐中國在經歷了文革後逐步復原﹐但是到了1989年﹐由於當時要求民主的步伐過於急進﹐影響了社會的穩定﹐六四發生後﹐我國的民主發展倒退了幾年﹐而經濟也受到了相當影響。當時我在國內和香港的生意﹐也同樣受到了影響﹐營商環境如幾年前的沙士期間差不多﹐要幾年後才逐步恢復。
        當年六四期間﹐我也身在北京﹐看到事態的發展越來越令人擔憂﹐最初學生們本來是和平示威表達意見﹐到後來整個北京巿幾乎變成無政府狀態。北京政府容忍學生們佔領天安門廣場兩個多月﹐全世界沒一個國家可以接受這樣長時間的示威。學生們幻想能在一夜之間變天。更不幸的是﹐「香港支聯會」將數以百萬元捐款帶到北京支持示威學生﹐在1989年﹐北京大學一級教授月薪只有67元人民幣﹐大部份示威學生口袋裡只有兩三元﹐從來未曾面對過這樣巨額捐款﹐因此很多學生不願離開天安門廣場﹐抱著等派錢的心態﹐令事態發展到不可收拾﹐使政府不得不採取清場行動﹐恢復社會秩序。
        回故我國過去20年﹐由於改革開放及穩定的政治環境﹐大家少談政治多做事﹐使我國在經濟發展上取得驕人成就﹐人民生活得到很大改善。世界輪流轉﹐現在中國外匯儲備有兩萬多億美元﹐連美國都要求中國購買她們的債券。 在1989年﹐當時我國的外匯只有十幾億美元﹐而且還欠日本幾百億元外債﹐加上美國的圍堵﹐蘇聯對我國虎視眈眈。在外憂內困的環境下﹐如果當時沒有及時果斷地平息六四風波﹐整個社會就會陷入無休止的社會運動中﹐可能成為比民化大革命更壞的運動﹐就沒有今天的國富民強。
        港目前正面對金融海嘯和經濟發展的問題﹐需要一個和諧及穩定的社會環境﹐才能克服困境走出陰霾。以前香港人只顧賺錢不談政治﹐香港才能發展成為亞洲四小龍之一。現在香港人天天爭拗﹐小事化大事﹐事事責罵﹐令官員們做事畏首畏尾﹐抱著少做少錯心態﹐香港又如何能克服金融海嘯。同樣是特區的澳門﹐回歸後上下一心﹐發展比香港快而好。我呼籲香港各界不要再為六四而爭論﹐不要再將六四話題帶入香港的議會﹐六四已經過去了20年﹐跟香港的現在和將來的發展和民生都是沒有任何關係﹐要拋開歷史包袱﹐各界同心合力搞好香港﹐先搞好經濟﹐先解決民生問題﹐ 然後才能循序漸進發展民主﹐ 這才是香港的生存之道。鄧小平說過一國兩制五十年不變﹐ 回歸後香港社會不停在變﹐ 請香港人記住「井水不可犯河水」﹐ 請香港人三思三思﹗
﹗﹗
2009年6月4日 香港

don't use Taiwan as an example
China should follow India
India is a good example for 民主自由
Never try to teach a pig to sing; It wastes your time and annoys the pig." - Heinlein

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本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2009-6-6 16:55 編輯
Please read my previous post again:


The charter is not drafted by some foreign powers. Instead, it was written by Chinese scholars, activists, human rights advocates, well-known people in China, an ...
Lik 發表於 2009-6-6 10:39


I have to leave this topic to you to think about it because it requires much background knowledge of politic, social, culture and history and other information to explain. I don’t think I can do a good job on explaining it. I am not saying I am smarter than you or anything else. It is just because I had read the relating materials.

I do not say what CCP had done is right, but I understand the reasons (not necessary I would support it) behind it.

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You need to understand a type of general election reflects a much grater spectrum of economic, political and social aspects behind it. It reflects the economic strength, social structure, education level of its population, political structure, legal system, and much more of a country.

A goal is important but how to achieve the goal is even more critical.
rockypath 發表於 2009-6-6 03:25

Please read my previous post again:

Change certainly needs time, and I am not saying China needs to become a democracy overnight. But the smallest steps, as illustrated in Charter 2008 (零八憲章), can at least be put to start. But instead of heeding to this most sincere pledge, CCP decides to crack down on the authors of the Charter. The Mothers of Tiananmen and other victims have already waited for 20 years. How much longer do these victims have to wait?!
Lik 發表於 2009-6-6 02:11

The charter is not drafted by some foreign powers. Instead, it was written by Chinese scholars, activists, human rights advocates, well-known people in China, and supported and signed by tens of thousands of Mainland Chinese before it is "harmonized" by the CCP.

-Lik

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Funny how a 50 cents poster such as yourself is trying to use Taiwan as an example, because in my mind, Taiwan is a model example of how democracy and freedom has flourished. From the old authoritari ...
Lik 發表於 2009-6-5 21:47


You need to understand a type of general election reflects a much grater spectrum of economic, political and social aspects behind it. It reflects the economic strength, social structure, education level of its population, political structure, legal system, and much more of a country.

A goal is important but how to achieve the goal is even more critical.

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本帖最後由 maldini 於 2009-6-6 04:04 編輯

testing

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Judging by the writing style and tone of the previous post, I highly suspect the above post is written by a different (and possibly higher ranked and more intelligent) 50 cents party member. But what do I know as an average Joe~

We can leave debate of whether economic stability must precede democracy for another day, but as the 3rd or 4th biggest economy in the World, China's economic prowess has certainly reach the stage where it can support social and political reforms. And the country is in dire need of political reforms because faults are bursting everywhere in the current system! Corruption is widespread and rampant. There are laws set out to govern the land but nobody (including the various levels of governments themselves) follows them. Fundamental humans rights are non-existent precisely when you need them to be there to protect you. The only thing China has is its vast economic prowess.

Simply put, today's China cannot follow the same slow pace that ROC was taking in Taiwan. The world is a different place -- a much faster place. People are better educated, much more sophisticated, and information travels at a pace that no one can even dream of back in the 40's. And PRC's problems are far more severe and in much direr need of addressing than ROC' problems 60 years ago.

Change certainly needs time, and I am not saying China needs to become a democracy overnight. But the smallest steps, as illustrated in Charter 2008 (零八憲章), can at least be put to start. But instead of heeding to this most sincere pledge, CCP decides to crack down on the authors of the Charter. The Mothers of Tiananmen and other victims have already waited for 20 years. How much longer do these victims have to wait?!

No amount of logical reasoning can be said to defend the CCP.

-Lik

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本帖最後由 peter236 於 2009-6-6 00:12 編輯
Funny how a 50 cents poster such as yourself is trying to use Taiwan as an example, because in my mind, Taiwan is a model example of how democracy and freedom has flourished. From the old authoritari ...
Lik 發表於 2009-6-5 21:47


Lik, by using Taiwan as an example, you basically agree to China's plan of economic reforms before democratic reforms. If you truly support Taiwan's path to democracy, then you should be smart enough to realize that mainland China is now going along the same path. Taiwan had experienced rapid economic growth long before they had any presidential election. It wasn't like the KMT allowed democratic election in Taiwan at he very beginning. But eventually they allowed democratic election. The same thing will happen in China. Economic growth provides a sound basis for democratic reforms.
Notice the number of decades between Taiwan's 228 incident and Lee Deng Hui's apology.

In fact, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong had experience rapid economic growth long before they had any form of democratic election.

The per capita GDP of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong are way higher than that of slumdog millionaire India. Even mainland China has way higher per capita GDP than slumdog millionaire India.

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Just a hint for you -- look at the general election in Taiwan. Did you get the hint?
rockypath 發表於 2009-6-5 17:44

Funny how a 50 cents poster such as yourself is trying to use Taiwan as an example, because in my mind, Taiwan is a model example of how democracy and freedom has flourished. From the old authoritarian days of the Elder Chiang, Taiwan underwent reforms and turned itself into the flourishing democracy that it is now. Certainly their system is far from perfect at the moment, but it is vastly superior to what PRC can hope to become in the foreseeable future.

A full explanation of why Taiwanese democracy has taken huge strides forward would be much too difficult for you to understand. Suffice to say that under the Taiwanese democratic system, voters have thrown the ultra corrupt Ah Bien out of Office peacefully using the power of their ballots. Taiwanese people have a CHOICE of who they want to put into Office to serve them! Do Mainland Chinese citizens get to enjoy this right?!

More importantly, if you have any sort of understanding in Taiwanese history, you'll know what the 228 Incident is. In comparison to 6.4, it puts the CCP to even more shame! Long story short, the 228 incident developed from widespread riots, demonstrations, protests, etc. in Taipei, and in the end, the KMT army stepped in to suppress the protests. Thousands of citizens died in the suppression process, and the KMT have since been repeatedly slammed for the citizens' deaths.

Notice any similarities to 6.4 here? But guess what? 李登輝, the ROC President at the time, came out and issued an official apology to all victims of the 228 incident. Compensations were made out to surviving families of the victims, and Feb 28 is made into a national holiday to commemorate the victims.

That is what happened in Taiwan. The KMT has to admit their crimes and apologize because the democratic systems essentially would ensure their doom if they didn't. That is the power and value of democracy. Do you see the same thing happening in Mainland China with the CCP's one party rule?!

-Lik

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本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-6-5 17:57 編輯

I actually talked to some journalists in HK just to confirm,
unfortunately,  it is true.
Mr. Bok Bok Cheung  from 1470 had talked on the issue for a few day,
hope some LYK will remember
Please correct me if I'm wrong

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