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I thought the Miller-Urey experiment was a representation of what the earth was like way back and produced some single-celled thing out of stuff from earth's supposed atmosphere.

I think once the first single-celled being can be explained, the rest can also be explained with natural selection and evolution.

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Well this sucks

A good chunk of the thread is missing! I had a nice long reply but somehow it got deleted.   *oh well


"chemical bonds are easily broken by elements such as oxygen"-puZZle, citation needed.


Ignore the first two and an half minutes:


underwater = no O2 gas

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reposting some deleted stuff~

Intelstan
the Miller-Urey experiment would not be a good representation of the ancient ocean/atmosphere because of the super high concentration of compounds which existed in the consealed flask

lemme just quote what was "created" in the experiment from wiki (not my favorite but ya i am just too lazy)
引用:

    The experiment used water (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen (H2).
    ...
    Nucleic acids (DNA, RNA) themselves were not formed.
    As observed in all consequent experiments, both left-handed (L) and right-handed (D) optical isomers were created in a racemic mixture. Virtually all amino acids in the proteins of living cells are left-handed amino acids.
    Any right-handed amino acids, for the most part, are poisonous to the construction of the protein, causing it to unravel. Equal amounts of left- and right-handed amino acids would not be an environment friendly to life.

No life was ever created (out of "nothing") by humans
i think i have partly answered notgoddy's question here also?


Also, regarding the whole "ancient atomosphere" hypotheses,
there are much debate about what what when how why of the environment.

How can they really know it was around 4 billion years ago that all these had happened (if they did)
and how can they know how exactly the environment was like?
(There exists much circular arguments in this field,
e.g. for life to have begun on its own, the environment must be oxygen-less etc
which assumes that life DID begin on its own)
引用:

    Although lightning storms are thought to have been very common in the primordial atmosphere, they are not thought to have been as common as the amount of electricity used by the Miller-Urey experiment implied. These factors suggest that much lower concentrations of biochemicals would have been produced on Earth than was originally predicted

We cannot just simply assume that there was no creator (be it a deity or aliens or other sources)

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...and then lyks talked alot about "objective truths," "believing," "ultimate creator"
too lazy to copy and paste all that sorry
then chunsh said:
thats what I am talking about if our assumptions are correct, puzzle wants to refer to ultimate creator.

Austin:
So what?  Ultimate creator doesn't have to be related to any religion. i.e. all the religions in the world might be referring to the wrong ultimate creator.

notgoddy:
Do we need a creator in order to exist?

Littleprince:
愛因思坦有天造了一個很漂亮的地球儀﹐
叫了他的朋友們來看﹐
他的朋友問他﹕
“這麼漂亮精美的地球儀﹐誰造的﹖”
他說﹕
“沒有﹐我只是把零件放在這裡﹐
過了許久﹐它們自己碰撞就出來了。。。”
他的朋友大笑說﹕
“開玩笑。。。
這麼漂亮精美能碰撞得出來﹖”
愛恩思坦就說﹕
“就是了﹐
區區一個地球儀都不能﹐
甚麼令你們覺得﹐
這麼精美結構奇妙浩瀚的宇宙﹐
是沒有創造者的呢﹖”

(puzzle: i thought it was said by Newton, lol o well, the concepts the same)

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oh thanks Puzzle... my bad memory, hehe....
我好惹火。。。

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原帖由 notgoddy 於 2008-8-20 19:35 發表
"chemical bonds are easily broken by elements such as oxygen"-puZZle, citation needed.

However, when oxygen gas is added to this mixture, no organic molecules are formed. Opponents of Miller-Urey hypothesis seized upon recent research that shows the presence of uranium in sediments dated to 3.7 Ga and indicates it was transported in solution by oxygenated water (otherwise it would have precipitated out).[13] These opponents argue that this presence of oxygen precludes the formation of prebiotic molecules via a Miller-Urey-like scenario, attempting to invalidate the hypothesis of abiogenesis.


oh i just thought you would know that since you argued that genetic materials can be formed in a natural environment o_o sorry
this is the same reason why the Miller-Urey experiment did not have any oxygen in the mixture

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原帖由 puZZle 於 2008-8-22 13:35 發表
...and then lyks talked alot about "objective truths," "believing," "ultimate creator"
too lazy to copy and paste all that sorry
then chunsh said:
thats what I am talking about if our assumptions are ...


then who created the creator?
dont tell me there is none

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whatever the First Cause is

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原帖由 chunsh 於 2008-8-22 13:50 發表


then who created the creator?
dont tell me there is none



If you want to talk about a creator, then there could be a creator of that creator
If you want to talk about an ultimate creator, then there is no creator of that ultimate creator.

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原帖由 Austin 於 2008-8-22 13:55 發表



If you want to talk about a creator, then there could be a creator of that creator
If you want to talk about an ultimate creator, then there is no creator of that ultimate creator.


do u think there is ultimate creator?
if so, how did the ultimate creator exist by him/her/itself?

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