somewhereintime

回復 30# Catpiano

My kids grown up now, and I'm semi retired.
I do volunteer works, boiling water on radio,
visiting friends.
Time to have some fun.

lo_pak

Look4chrisng

毛澤東死左幾十年﹐領導人都換左幾屆﹐LYK裡面念念不忘毛澤東既﹐我想就只有閣下了。

原來閣下認為西藏新 ...
soli 發表於 2010-12-9 21:02

I don't see a problem.

I think it is ok if enough people want independence.  Let the people vote to decide their future.

We allow the vote for Quebec's independence.  This is the way civilized people to do things.  Got it?

BiscottiGelato

China have a bottom line, Liu Xiaobo offended China's bottom line (seperating China), and got imprisoned for it.

The Western world have a bottom line, and people like Julianne Assange is stepping on it, and the Western world is going after him for it.

In both cases we can argue on the basis of Freedom of Speech. In both cases the government acted similarly. To ask for Liu Xiaobo to be freed, then Julianne Assange should get off the hook first.

As a previous poster stated, the Nobel peace prize have been politically charged with the arrow pointing straight towards China. Dalai Lama, Obama and Liu Xiaobo IMO have contributed nothing to peace. Dalai Lama's is a seperatist, aiming to poke at China where it hurts. If that's not an act trying to instigate war, I don't know what is. I'd say he's a war instigator. Obama have done nothing contributing to peace, he is just doing what he has to do as the President of US. Obviously if you compare him to Bush, then he looks like a saint but otherwise he really is just any other US President when it comes to the topic of 'peace'. Liu Xiaobo again is yet another one that is screwing around looking for a fight. Whether his proposed political reform is good or not is beyond the point. But what he did is basically asking China to respond him with trouble, and I don't see how provokation equates to peace. If Liu Xiaobo deserves the peace prize, I'd only call it fair if Julianne Assange gets it for 2011!

The western propganda and hypocracy have been rising as they are throwing in all they've got to curb China's influence. When China is doing something wrong, they blame China for it. When China is doing wrong just like they themselves are, they still call China names. Even when China is doing something right, they still say it's China's fault.

I hope that most LYK is just arguing for argument's sake, and that they can actually peer through the fact from the garbage at the back of their minds. Stuff like 三鹿奶粉事件, sure China handled it really badly. But other things, like expecting China to adopt democracy overnight, expect China to let RMB appreciate by 20% overnight, and applying other western standards, or giving in to western demands, are just plain BS. Anyone who believe in those are just totally brain washed by Western propagandas.

In my view, the Western world is not on that much more of a moral high ground when compared to China. I'd take anything they have to say with a large grain of salt.

BiscottiGelato

LOL
WikiLeaks' Julian Assange 'Should Get Nobel Peace Prize,' Says Russia
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/20 ... ange-_n_794965.html

peter236

#26
You can have democratic elected prime minister, provincial premier and city mayors for China,

I ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 08:05

When China does have democracy, that does not mean the CCP will not exist. It is a matter of whether people will vote some of their candidates. The CCP will most likely change their name or split into various parties, representing left, middle, or right of the society. Whichever party they elect, the government will still be controlled by the Chinese people.

Even in Canada, there is communist party but no one vote for them and they have very few candidates.

To implement federalism you have to first split China into various countries and then allow each province to decide whether to join the Chinese federation. This will weaken all the provinces of China as many provinces will have smaller population then Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Phillippines, Indonesia etc. The provinces by themselves cannot compete as effectively against all these other Asian countries.

BiscottiGelato

Someone do get it:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofvi ... -a-nobel-prize.html
"Ocomar tweeted that Assange is to the U.S. what jailed democratic activist Liu Xiaobo is to China. "[Assange] should be awarded the Nobel Prize too or backed by Amnesty International."

sheep

When China does have democracy, that does not mean the CCP will not exist. It is a matter of wheth ...
peter236 發表於 2010-12-10 13:15

    上海幫
湖南幫
江系
鄧系
胡系
而家都係多黨制

peter236

上海幫
湖南幫
江系
鄧系
胡系
而家都係多黨制
sheep 發表於 2010-12-10 13:23

Even the NDP and Liberal parties of BC have several factions in each.

Lik

China have a bottom line, Liu Xiaobo offended China's bottom line (seperating China), and got imprisoned for it.

The Western world have a bottom line, and people like Julianne Assange is stepping on it, and the Western world is going after him for it.

In both cases we can argue on the basis of Freedom of Speech. In both cases the government acted similarly. To ask for Liu Xiaobo to be freed, then Julianne Assange should get off the hook first.
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2010-12-10 13:06

You are quite correct that the 2 cases are similar in that both persons crossed the bottom lines of the respective countries and they are getting hunted down for it. However, you have to ask yourself this -- comparatively speaking, how high are the bottom lines in China and in the US? Specifically, the constitutions of both China and the US guarantees freedom of speech . In Liu Xiaobo's case, none of the things he did were in violation of the Chinese constitution, but he was deemed by the Party (and subsequently the courts) to have broken the law right from the start, so he never would have had a chance in court. In Assange's case, lawyers and constitution specialists have repeatedly written that the US courts have a very slim chance of charging Assange with anything that'll stick since he can easily use the First Amendment and freedom of the press to defend for himself.
Also, you need to get your facts straight. Dalai Lama may have supported Tibet separatism in the past, but he has long been only fighting for the self-governance of Tibet (大西藏區自治，但唔係要搞藏獨). Obama is calling back the troops from Afghanistan.

Every country will certainly act in their own national interest, and there is nothing wrong with that. But when you commit atrocities at basic human rights level as Grandfather has repeatedly been doing, you deserve to get slammed internationally.

-Lik