chunsh

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-12-17 17:35 發表
if you said so...go right down to a point that only you can understand on this planet...LOL

I knew people living in public housing and they're very happy wor...what's posting pics on blogs have to do ...

what else is more important than having a stable financial background for the couple to raise a child? without money, parents need to work like a slave (not just a dog!) to gain money. So u think they still have time to be with the child, play with them, go to picnic with them, get a DS for them?

so u think the child will be happy while his/her parents always "disappear" because they need to go to work? Now comes the problem of "problematic teens"


well, if the couple's parents are rich, thats another story

[ 本帖最後由 chunsh 於 2008-12-17 18:13 編輯 ]

siuyudim

what if the girl doesn't want to get married? what would you do?

Hyde

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-12-17 17:35 發表
if you said so...go right down to a point that only you can understand on this planet...LOL

I knew people living in public housing and they're very happy wor...what's posting pics on blogs have to do with happiness?

aham...I thought you said the ONLY important thing is money, when did you change your mind?  I hate quoting people but this is for you only "Money is THE only reason to worry" (post #26).  I think there's a difference between "first" and "only".

you were the one pointing out and connecting happiness with people with families posting their family pictures on blogs and  yahoo albums.

First and Only is the same thing for the poor ppl.  if they can only worry about the first thing, do you think they should even worry about the second thing?

Like I said, you do not even understand I say or anything the real world works.  Let me rephrase it so a retarded guy like you can understand.   Do you think a poor family with only enough money for their daily expense will be worrying where they should take their kids to go learn swimming, taekwondo, piano, drawing?? FYI, all of those cost money, do you think when the parents don't have enough money do all that?  and what's gonna happen?  the kid just hangs out on the street everyday with the wrong crowd while their parents are at work struggling to bring food on the table.  

Money can't solve all problem, but without money, you can't solve any problem.

Ultraman

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-12-17 15:14 發表

do you see  the connection?
naive/imature kids had the forbidden fruit -> baby -> did not take the responsiblilty of being parents -> baby suffers
so who's fault is this?  is that any better than this?
naive/imature kids had the forbidden fruit -> baby -> abortion -> live in shadow for life

Honestly, there is only sad result for either situation.
Case 1: naive/immature kids had the forbidden fruit > baby > decide to give birth > baby/grown up kid suffers in the future.
Case 2: naive/immature kids had the forbidden fruit > baby > abortion > no "formed & conscious" baby to suffer, but parents might live in shadow for the rest of their lives.

Actually, the naive/immature kids shouldn't have had the forbidden fruit at the first place. What I interpret "naive/immature kids" is, very young couples who are not physically and mentally well built, and also not economically independent. No matter they have use any kind of safe preparation when they're eating the forbidden fruit, there is still a chance to be pregnant. If they're not "well prepared" for every possible consequence, they shouldn't even eat the fruit. That's call "responsible". Once they didn't consider the consequence well but have the fruit eaten and have baby, getting married at their very young and non-prepared age (I call this "inappropriate" time),  they're just being irresponsible but not responsible. Yeah, you might think getting married is the correct way to tell people you have guts to face and bear the consequence, and also being a responsible person/parent. However, very likely they can't support their lives all by themselves (not only limited to economically), and thus they'll have to ask their parents (and other relatives and friends) for help. As I said, money is not the biggest concern, for money can be borrowed but wisdom and maturity cannot. When more "innocent" people have to get involved and suffered, I won't call this a responsible action at all.

小叻

土瓜灣發現初生嬰兒屍體 (明報)12月18日 星期四 08:05
土瓜灣旭日街海心公園對開，凌晨近1時半有人發現一具初生嬰兒屍體。
該名嬰兒用布包著，救護員到場證實嬰兒已死亡，稍後會驗屍確定死因。警方將案列作屍體發現案處理。

That's a very sad result.........the baby is innocent....

Ultraman

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-12-17 16:52 發表
OK Ultraman, I see what you're trying to say now.

For one thing, are the parents in such a bad situation/condition right now?  I think for most people, they're probably not in that position.  You've said "tough" many times.  So what are the problems that this couple is facing that will be so tough and cause a unhealthy baby?  Is not able to go to party/bar too tough?  LOL  Maybe it's time for them to grow up?

Silly brave or irresponsible?  I'm sure there are people who are silly brave.  I'm not saying you shouldn't analyze the problem and come up with a plan.  I'm saying one shouldn't hide from difficulties.  It could be difficult but it's not impossible right?  Even for a low income person, it's not impossilbe to have a kid.  This is Canada, it's way better than a lot of other places already.  Giving the best to the kids?  What's the best and what the worse?  If you insist on having private school, then of course not a lot of people can afford that.  However, public school is absolutely free.  Instead of wearing Nike, you can wear Walmart shoes, etc...many people are doing that...

So how would you deal with this baby then?  I want to know your opinion.

OK, let's talk about: what essential elements/factors do you think a pair of good and responsible parents should have? Or what essential elements/factors a pair of parents should have in order to have a bigger chance to raise up good and responsible kids?
Let's brainstorm..... money (doesn't necessary to be super rich)? maturity? personality? value? social network/relationship? knowledge (in any field)? .... etc?
All you have listed out might be something most people concern (including yourself), money or something material related. But that's not "should give all the best to kids" I meant. What I meant "tough", also not or not only related to money or material issues. If you somehow agree my brainstorm elements/factors are true and valid (besides money), then I can tell you I really doubt a very young or young couple is mature enough, and have personality well built in a positive way, and have correct or good value of life, and have strong social network/relationship, and are well knowledgeable enough to raise up their kids, "future plan" to them is even more "untouchable".

shutterbug

chunsh & hyde,

You guys always like to bring out extreme cases huh?  If cases are that extreme, then I guess it should be assessed in a case per case basis.  I'm talking about people in general.  Plus, this is Canada, a lot more benefits for the poor.   Nowadays, the majority of the parents are working parents and they're still raising happy kids.  Most people don't need to work 24/7 to sustain their living, do they?  If not, then there you go you have time!  

Go do some research, street kids/trouble teens don't become that way because their parents are low income.

shutterbug

If they're not "well prepared" for every possible consequence, they shouldn't even eat the fruit. That's call "responsible". Once they didn't consider the consequence well but have the fruit eaten and have baby, getting married at their very young and non-prepared age (I call this "inappropriate" time),  they're just being irresponsible but not responsible.

I agree.  But there are some members who think this cannot be avoided/controlled.

Yeah, you might think getting married is the correct way to tell people you have guts to face and bear the consequence, and also being a responsible person/parent.

Let me tell you, I don't believe in showing/telling people what I think, I do it.  If your motive is just to show that you're responsible, it's totally wrong.  When I mean face the problem, I mean it!  That means change in life style, change whatever to make it work, with determination!

I'm in a hurry, will be back....haha

Catpiano

Aiya . SB .. I know you are very "FREE" now ..   

But ..  um ..   

Hyde

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-12-17 18:59 發表
chunsh & hyde,

You guys always like to bring out extreme cases huh?  If cases are that extreme, then I guess it should be assessed in a case per case basis.  I'm talking about people in general.  Plu ...

people in general are those that have kids already have a stable income.

we are talking about having a baby early. BEFORE someone is financially stable, no people in general. you are just moving the topic somewhere else.