shutterbug

咁你覺得有幾多人其實會屬於severe condition有夕幾人又屬於normal呢? 有好多人半年連五千都行唔到, 咁算點呢? 仲有, 原廠都有sell engine flush, 三萬零左右, 咁如果換油換得夠密又點解咁早要flush? 近黎佢地又話flush唔好, 咁之前比佢地flush左果d點算?
The best thing is to read your owner's manual.  Engine flush?  I don't think it's a requirement from the manufacturer.  For example, engine flush never appeared in Honda's service schedule.  Yes flushing a dirty engine could be bad cuz the loose dirt could block oil passages.  If you already flushed then what can you do?  If you flushed an dirty engine, try to minimize the chance of blockage by changing the oil more frequently lor and cross your fingers.  To me engine flush is not needed (I never had to do that on my cars) if you follow manufacturer's schedule, but how many people really know how and able to follow???  Some engines, they are screwups from the manufacturers, e.g. old Camry v6, they had sludge problem even if you follow the schedule but that's a special case.  I think at the end they had TSB or recalls??? and change the service schedule on those???  I don't know.  Yes Toyota can screw up, so can anyone, but again it's rare.


不過我覺得如果一架車成日行短程(每日都係行十零廿公里之內), 同一架車成日行"中程"(每日行四十零五十公里), 咁中程既會好d; 但係有朋友日日行80至120km左右既都有, 我唔見得果d好囉; 好多時候驗二手車其實已經可以睇到好多野, 不過當然, 買得起新車而又換得起身既, 保養好似算唔算唔重要?
The key is light load or heavy load.  Short trip is short trip, it's the worse no matter what.  But say for a 30km one way trip, it makes a big difference if you're driving in rush hour city or cruising on hwy.


I guess you don't need to tell me your "friends" did this and that and become happier and the other was sad and sold his car, etc...because I don't know the details of each case and there are too many variables involved to make a good judgement from just reading your words.  Who knows if your "friends" didn't do oil change for 20k then go to your place for engine flush.  Nobody knows how they keep their cars before right?  Unless they bought them brand new and always go to your garage for service?


There's no need to bring my car in for compare (but I like your offer) because my car's odometer reads 11k at the moment...


Copying our posts?  I don't think it's needed or worth anything.  

人生真係太多問號喇, 好彩有字典仔...

shutterbug

Btw, do you work on taxi's and police cars, etc?

All they do is follow the severe service schedule and that's it, no more and no less.  Nobody is willing to pay for extra service there because it's a "business" vehicle.  At the end of the day, you always see engines with 300+km and when you take off the valve cover, they look like day 1, hone marks still on cams, etc...

字典仔

sb: 唔好意思, engine flush的確唔係正常既service schedule / requirement裡面, 我講緊既係現實生活朋友既經歷(honda / toyota / mazda / subaru/ volkswagen / audi 之裡既都好似有聽過, 或者係佢地d單/ service record裡面見到曾經做過, 絕對唔係一d owner's manual有寫同冇寫既問題, 而係有d dealership的確留意到耐唔換油既問題, 好似我見過有人人地叫佢8000換佢就成萬先換, 都係差2000jei, 差下差下, 四萬公里已經差左成個oil change囉...

我自己都唔贊成engine flush, 最大既問題其實唔係loose dirt會塞d咩passage, 係我真係試過換完油之後個engine死左, 原來佢之前平均萬二換一次, 果陣都未夠廿萬副engine四個cylinder得兩個勉強到MINIMUM, 其他兩個係MINIMUM既一半, 原因反而係因為佢之前太差, 副engine係靠d污衊野黎hold up D compression, 換完之後爽晒跟住就突然暴斃, 死況極之可憐...

另一個朋友又係成日都懶換油, 02年車剛過十萬早前97000km同佢換火咀既時候話佢架車渣上黎真係唔係咁順不如睇睇compression, 點知做到第三個cylinder仲差d以為個錶壞左, 得其他既一半, 咁迷底咪打開左囉...佢都有成日睇住d oil level, 佢都話近年污衊得快左燒得快左, 8000km可能要入1Ｌ至1.5L?

我好肯定一樣野，佢唔warm車，永遠入87, 同埋得閒先換油，冇時間就check check oil level果ｄ黎既...但係就十萬都冇...

其實每一個人都有佢既keep車方法同原則，只不過係有時候一ｄ不經心既答案就會令到一ｄ一知半解既人出問題(果個我都知絕對唔係你, 個朋友就係入網見人地話可以咁可以咁, 唔駛點又唔駛點)..只不過既然你有你既意見我亦都有我既，睇下邊個幫到大家囉；再講，可能我同你講完佢出到去人地做既野又唔同...根本唔會知...我都係但求心安理得...

就係正當你冇可能知每一個人既用法有冇問題, 又或者本身架車出廠有冇問題, 係紙上談兵既情況下, 我就更加唔想人地會一知半解而出問題, 重申, 有問題會係果d唔識車亦都唔會去check tire pressure呀, check oil level呀, 之類既大眾...

我冇整過警車, 不過我朋友隔黎間車房有, 亦都有朋友既車房專整的士, 我自己亦都有整教車師傅車 (口口0唔係好多, 五年平均四十至六十萬, 視乎佢幾勤力), 送報紙送餐一個月唔少過四千既好多...剩係返工放工去女朋友屋企同出下街, 99年到而家第3架車, 之前每架廿萬左右(都係因為被撞而total loss, 四年左右咁既里數trade in可能冇人要, 不過icbc都比佢top book因為condition好...最新呢架07年120k左右(女友會流行少左)...佢地全當中有d係"i have to keep this car on the road, so whatever has to be done, it gotta be done" ~ 好似警車同緊急車輛咁 (你估投張contract返黎平呀? 投都係因為果d車咩都要整既就整, 又行得多)....的士冇得講, d阿叉cheap, 不過有d自己車既都keep得唔錯架(我都有朋友之前渣的士, 自己車)...

300k我又想睇下有幾多架真係可以拆左valve cover, they look like day 1; 唔駛day 1, 我就搵我架得一半都冇里數既黎compare啦...

Catpiano

Aiya .. peaceful la...

Dictionary want to change oil every 1500-3000km, and if he can afford to do it, (money and time) he can get peace of mind ..  that is ok wor ..

Just like some people like to see doctor once a month for body check or whatever ...  that is fine wor ..

I like to "all ci" 2 times a day .. vs my wife  once for every 2 day ..... am I going to live longer? or she will?

May be doing oil change every 1500-3000km, vs 25,000 km recomended by manufactory .. the car can last 300,000 km, vs 250,000 km?

Or if someone likes to do oil change every 2K, and has kept his car in perfect shape, but then someone hit to his car .. and total lost ...  he only got the same amount of money from insurance company for car which only does oil change every 20k....  etc etc ...

Yeah .. some people eat healthy food all the time ..  but dying young ..  some people smoke till 100 yr old .. and still alive ..   (dirty lung for sure .. )

shutterbug

That's the problem, people who doesn't follow the maint schedule is the root of the problems.  A manufacturer calls for 8k or 6 months oil change interval and a guy do it at 9k or wait a year until he accumulate enough km, not a lot over but all adds up.  At the end this guy's engine is full of sludge and he complains that the car sucks, oil sucks, or the schedule is wrong.

Doing an engine flush on an old engine is a big mistake (same goes for tranny flush, drain and fill is different though) in the first place and should not be advised.  If 200k and 2 cylinders are almost dead, I'd just tell the owner to change the oil more often and don't do engine flush because those 2 cylinders will likely not gonna hold compression after.

Also, driving style plays a big part in engine life.  For example, race car get to rebuilt engien and all new brakes every race, though they run for a short distance BUT with high temp and high revs.  If one rev like crazy every gear vs another who shifts at around 3 grand. Given the same oil change interval, the former will have a more worn engine, BUT will you ask your every customer how you drive when they bring in their cars?  No right?

Well that's why I said "looks" like day 1, meaning no sludge, no discolouring.  Of course the engine isworn la but you really can still see the hone marks on the cams.

spoonek4

睇左果個site 講d 人貪得意去換油果段，都幾好笑。換得密真係唔使功夫，唔使時間同錢咁﹖要架，就算我自己做慳左人工都要俾料錢，但係至少我知我唔係咁無聊放假搵野黎做 lol

網上面既資料可以睇下，但唔可以盡信，我都唔會叫人信晒我，你覺得錫車係岩既，係好事。覺得manufacturer 整出黎個service schedule(睇mileage或者時間事但一樣)係太密既，我亦冇意見，因為部車唔係我設計同製造，我只係可以講人地做得部車出黎係4個月/8000km換一次油既，d 人行夠兩萬都覺得冇咁既需要，事後冧野攪到要一獲過整，都係要俾錢，不過通常一獲過整既都幾甘下姐。唔係冇見過，岩岩早個月先有個客係咁，話副偈有怪聲喎，係囉拉支油尺出黎不知幾乾淨，冇晒油，check左個中缸入面嘈得好緊要，攪到要一係rebuild一係換偈，終於部車都係拖走左。

特別要留意係由於宜家好多新車，車廠為左追求低耗油量同各樣低廢氣排放要求會recommend用5w20或者0w20偈油，引擎容積同馬力又愈出愈大，但係就冇一個正係efficient既engine oil cooler。水箱水都仲有風扇同水箱去冷卻，engine oil 同transmission oil cooler 好睇車種而定，多數1500-2500cc既家庭車都好少有oil cooler，齋靠coolant去幫手降低油溫可以有幾efficient﹖油溫比水溫既溫度高30-40c真係唔出奇.......

原廠近年recommend 既呢d 偈油劣化既速度分分鐘比你想像中快好多，所以我實在覺得廠本身recommend既里數都已經一d 唔密，仲真係幾遲。

所以好似sb 你post果個link，係，某d 情況下某d 車某d 人係work，但緊記真係唔可以一部通書睇到老，我唔覺得果個作者果一套work o係日本車。保養呢d 野，換油換呔換迫力換timing belt都好，唔應該推太遲，相信你都有聽過"凡事太盡，緣份勢必早盡"﹖

shutterbug

睇左果個site 講d 人貪得意去換油果段，都幾好笑。
Lots of people buy stuff that they don't need so it's really not something special.  Many people religiously change their oil every 3-4k.  They don't care if they need it or not; they just want peace of mind.

水箱水都仲有風扇同水箱去冷卻，engine oil 同transmission oil cooler 好睇車種而定，多數1500-2500cc既家庭車都好少有oil cooler，齋靠coolant去幫手降低油溫可以有幾efficient﹖油溫比水溫既溫度高30-40c真係唔出奇.......
Most of the time it's efficient enough.  Many small car don't have oil coolers because they don't need it, just the cooling system will do the job.

原廠近年recommend 既呢d 偈油劣化既速度分分鐘比你想像中快好多，所以我實在覺得廠本身recommend既里數都已經一d 唔密，仲真係幾遲
You don't know how fast/slow they deterioate until you do an oil analysis.  5w20 is just the viscosity, doesn't mean it breaks down faster or slower than 5w30.  OTOH synthetic vs dino oil is a different story.

但緊記真係唔可以一部通書睇到老，我唔覺得果個作者果一套work o係日本車。
I never ask people to 一部通書睇到老, I just said follow the manufacturer's schedule.  果一套?  which one I don't get it?  what doesn't work on Japanese car ar?  What's so special about Japanese cars?

There are many references that said the same thing about engine oils, not just the link that I posted.  If you don't trust it, google can find more for you:

http://www.google.com/search?hl= ... p;start=10&sa=N

Read them all if you like, but after a few of them you'll soon find out they all said the same thing, even oil companies.  Internet is no different than our society where truth and lies are everywhere.  That's why I'm always skeptical about what others say and I ask questions all the time.

spoonek4

查實我想問下做一次oil analysis 要幾多錢呢sb兄﹖

Quest

So long as your EFI engine is in tip-top condition, with good spark plugs, strong sparks, proper timing and a functional air filter, modern EFI gasoline engines, motor oil can easily handle 5000miles OCI, or 7000kms for regular motor oil, longer if high quality syn or syn blend is being used.

Unlike carb'ed engines with mechanical sparking systems (points, or later, solid-state ignitors), EFI doesn't suffer from too much of fuel dilution. Granted, your system is on OBD-II already, computer will also monitor and adjust the idle timing for you which further helps in minimising fuel waste, and cylinder wall "washdown" due to cylinder flooding during cold start is next to nil.

3000miles OCI is only good for carb'ed cars and not suitable for modern stock EFI engines (unless you have yours stroked). Also: with ILSAC GF-4 (5 is coming sometime this year)/API SL or SM categorisation, most motor oils are no longer gp1 only (commonly referred to as "brightstock") but mostly gpII+, meaning it's highly refined GroupII base stock, sometimes with a blend of GpIII or beyond to achieve certain desirable properties). This is especially true with national brand name 5W30/5W20 where they have to be blended in order to achieve base lubricant thermal stability (resistance in boiling off).

Q.

p.s. for UOA, check out blackstone labs.

B2L2

查實我想問下做一次oil analysis 要幾多錢呢sb兄﹖
spoonek4 發表於 2009-12-18 17:33

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com says $10 - $30USD.  Is there any lab doing that in Vancouver?  Don't mind to play around with the number.  

I think http://www.bobistheoilguy.com have way better information related to oil.  Whatever oil/interval people do to their car, it is your choice.  The manufacture suggested interval "may" works for average usage and I consider that should be a bottom line.  Somehow, I never think I'm a normal user.  And if one care about his care more, a better oil/short interval always help, right?

My own theory is using cheap oil and short interval will be better than expensive (sync) and longer interval.  However, everytime I was shopping for oil, I always picked the sync and the better filter, asking myself why saving for that little money.  Maybe I have the recreational oil change symdon.  

- Brian