chobit

But at the end, I think we stay here not  because solely because canada is a democracy country, but more because it is a country relatveily safe crimes activties, high quality education, stable economic, lower risk of civil war, chance of being invaded by other country, higher quality of heath care system, and good disease controls..!

I doubt China will be a place we would like to live in without all the good features I mention soley base having a democracy problem.

Democracy is also full of craps and corruptions, I think China just has to go slow and take in what's good in  Democracy, and keep what's already good and look forward to the best for it's people and the country.

I am sure it will take many more decades for China to become a country where us lucky Chinese-Candians think it's an ideal place to live our lives

總之用軍隊對付自己國家手無寸鐵既平民就點講都唔通。
d學生可能係玩大左，但係佢地唔抵死
最衰就係屈佢地顛覆政府，仲要殺左咁多人都唔認。

如果64中國政府無錯，加拿大都唔會有咁多香港人啦 ...
siumaibb 發表於 2009-6-5 09:21

chobit

Thanks FYI.  I agree with many of your opinions....!  Like you suggest the process for change can take long, and can't be rush...!  The key is as long as China is moving toward to become a better China, there are very little else we can ask for other than actually doing more real works to help China growth in person.

What can we do to help China.  Help those who are in needs, help the blinds, build schools, provide funding to help those who want to study to become teachers or educators, etc..!  I have friend who go back to China with his yearly vacation time to do short term mission in poor area in China to help the blinds or disable kids.

BTW, before we continues to compare the rich Countries like Canada/US to China.  Do you know there are still tons of Villages in China where people have to walk 5-6 hours daily up/down hills just to pick up their water supplies?

Well, I think I have to answer the question myself.

Canadian women in Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan got the vote in 1916. But, Canadian women did not get the full rights for general election  ...
rockypath 發表於 2009-6-8 01:43

Lik

Chobit,

本來我今朝好唔得閒，但係見到你個 post 就真係火都來埋。因為你身為人父，所以我就問你呢個問題：假如有個死靚仔今日爆咗入你屋企，用槍虐殺咗你個小朋友，然後再用架車輾過佢條屍。你自己雖然無親身睇見件凶案嘅發生，但你身邊嘅親朋戚友就親眼見到，而且亦有埋 video 同相片，但廿年來條友佢一直到逍遙法外，而且仲做埋國際公司總裁。佢嘅員工有啲話廿年前嘅凶案無發生，有啲人話如果唔係廿年前條友隊 lum 咗你個仔嘅話，佢都唔會發奮向上爬，取得今日嘅成就。而每年你想去拜你個仔嘅時候，佢公司嘅人都會阻止你咁做，唔俾你出街。我問你，你仲會唔會講你以上講過嘅說話？！

我唔係要咀咒你個小朋友；我只係想指出，以上發生嘅就係每一個天安門母親二十年來每一日都不停面對嘅殘酷事實！呢個就係中共政府！

-力

rainbow-davie

阿Lik 算吧啦.

我相信一個人既成就同佢地既人生觀有直接關係. 你點講, 另一派一定有佢地既觀點, 係外人改唔到, 或者佢地覺得無須改變. 所以, 直至佢地要支持既對象不存在或改變, 佢地都會係咁.

Lik

Chobit,

我諗我剛才個 post 嘅語氣因為火燒心而用得太重，首先響呢度同你 say 個 sorry。之不過語氣雖然差，但過中嘅比喻卻係千真萬確。

希望你能夠對件事再思考一吓。

-力

chunsh

Chobit,

本來我今朝好唔得閒，但係見到你個 post 就真係火都來埋。因為你身為人父，所以我就問你呢個問題：假如有個死靚仔今日爆咗入你屋企，用槍虐殺咗你個小朋友，然後再用架車輾過佢條屍。你自己雖然無親身睇見 ...
Lik 發表於 2009-6-8 09:38

nobody here agree the chinese government use tanks and guns to kill the citizen is right. Chobit was just stating the fact that when every change of the political situation, lossing massive lives would happen 請你不要選擇性地ignore我們說話的意思

快樂牛郎

It always remind me a good saying

One life (or several lives) is a tragedy.
A million lives is a statistics.

chobit

It's sad that I can speak verbally far better than my writing skills...!  So, bare with me..!

First if my son is doing something he believe to be right, but yet in an incorrect timing, and cause his life, of course I will be very sad...!  But I can't ignore the fact that what my son involves could have caused many other deaths.  Sometimes, we like to draw a line between black and white with our own will, and would try to obtain our goals no matter how much damage it may caused...!  That speak for both the Chinese Governments, but also the students as well...!

Like someone else said it here, I don't think what the chinese government did to the students were right, but other also want to here from you Lik what are some of possible resolutions you can think of which you think can bring peace to both the Chinese Government and the students without affecting the stability of China at the time, and still allow China to be what it is right now?  Obviously.. what's done is done, so we can only go by a well educated guess..!

Speaking of countries like the US or Canada..!  Didn't they use us the Chinese to build rail-roads... what about the local indians... were they being treated pretty unfair ages ago...!  And it takes many years to get these countries to become such pretty good countries to live in!  They may had apolagize to their wrong doing, but that was after many years when the countries became well stable and when things are in their full controls.

Chobit,

本來我今朝好唔得閒，但係見到你個 post 就真係火都來埋。因為你身為人父，所以我就問你呢個問題：假如有個死靚仔今日爆咗入你屋企，用槍虐殺咗你個小朋友，然後再用架車輾過佢條屍。你自己雖然無親身睇見 ...
Lik 發表於 2009-6-8 08:38

Lik

Chobit,

I think I have written many times, both in this thread and in others, of what the CCP government could have done instead of firing live ammunition and rolling out tanks, so I am not going to repeat myself again. Suffice to say that had Elder Deng been willing to accept some concessions and suggestions from both the students and the milder factions within the Party, I am certain something would be worked out. But his own combination of fear, power-lust, and stubbornness caused him to make the totally incorrect decision that has forever tarnished his reputation.

-Lik

rockypath

Chobit,

I think I have written many times, both in this thread and in others, of what the CCP government could have done instead of firing live ammunition and rolling out tanks, so I am not going to  ...
Lik 發表於 2009-6-8 20:20

It was not us to ignore what you said, but it was you to ignore the facts we put in front of you.

When to resolve a social emergency or national crisis, there is no “ZERO SOCIAL COST” solution, but only “MINIMUM SOCIAL COST” solution.

The flood of Yangzte River and Yellow River has been an unsolvable problem in the thousands years of Chinese history. When the river was in the dangerous stage of breaking the dyke at any moment, do you still believe you would have the time to discuss about putting the dyke higher and making it stronger? In order to protect the more populated regions, some less populated areas had to be designated as “flood zone” to release the water. That means the dyke of that areas would be purposely blow down and the areas were deliberately flooded. Land would be filled, houses would be washed away, and lives could possibly lose as well.

How would you do differently in a situation like this, and would you believe you can do it in a way that would achieve “ZERO SOCIAL COST”?

Do you really believe you could resolve the 6.4 crisis (a possible collapse of a nation) just by communicating with students under the situations we put in front of you?